[00:00:00] Lori Massicot: Hi, Michelle. Hello. Welcome back, my friend. I'm so happy

[00:00:05] Michelle Smith: you're here. I am happy to be here. Thank you. And it's been 2 years. You were just telling me

[00:00:10] Lori Massicot: it's been 2 years. It's just it's. So interesting how time flies. Every year it's like this year is going so fast. And to look back, cause I did just look back, when was Michelle on the last time? I remember the day we had such a lovely conversation outside of recording and during our recording. And I'm going to link that episode down below.

[00:00:30] Lori Massicot: It's like, that does not seem two years ago,

[00:00:33] Michelle Smith: honestly. Yeah. It, time just flies. I know we say that, but it's true. It really, truly does fly

[00:00:39] Lori Massicot: by. It really does. And you've always been on my list of guests. And when I saw that your book came out your latest book, I wanted to reach out to you and I ordered a copy of it, Living Sober, Living Free, a guided journal for women who want to stop drinking.

[00:00:58] Lori Massicot: And it's just, [00:01:00] So sweet and special I feel and I want to congratulate you on not only how beautiful it is and really the the honesty and the heart and the soul that went into it because I just felt it on on the pages as I was reading through it, but this removable band. on the front of the journal.

[00:01:20] Lori Massicot: It's just, when I saw it and I got it, I'm like, Oh, I see what she's doing here. It's so cool because when you take it off, you don't have to have anything about sober on the front of it. And I really feel like you've thought of everything and it's just beautiful color. So congratulations.

[00:01:36] Michelle Smith: Thank you. Yes, the belly band was a great idea to be able to have to camouflage if women aren't ready to expose that part of their life yet.

[00:01:45] Michelle Smith: So trying to come up with all the objections and barriers that I would've when I initially started my sober journey as well. Because as you know, we know what that's like. So hopefully that's

[00:01:57] Lori Massicot: helpful. Absolutely. Oh, yes, [00:02:00] absolutely. I knew it right when I got it. I'm like, oh, this is so cool. I love that you did that.

[00:02:05] Lori Massicot: What really led you to write this wonderful book?

[00:02:09] Michelle Smith: You know, when I first started my sober journey, there was so much talk around gratitude. Meditation and journaling. And I'm thinking, okay, so if I drink green tea and I meditate, like, I'm going to be sober forever, right? Like, this is just poof. It's going to magically make me better.

[00:02:27] Michelle Smith: And so I sat down, had a sparkly pen, a beautiful journal, and I was like, What am I supposed to write about? Like, the whole idea, I had the whole scene set up, and I just went blank, and there was no journal prompts that I could find in regards to exploring sobriety, and I just wanted to brain dump, and that's really where it kind of started.

[00:02:50] Michelle Smith: It was like, okay, there's nothing like this exists, so I'm going to create what I wish I would have had, because I think that as women, especially me, I [00:03:00] Overcomplicate things and the process is supposed to be organic and it's supposed to flow and I couldn't seem to get there. And so that's where it initially came from.

[00:03:12] Lori Massicot: Yeah, I love that because you were setting yourself up in the beginning. Had your sparkly pin. You were doing everything that you heard. You know, this is very helpful to do. Right? But yeah, I agree. I feel like the journaling definitely led me to quit drinking because I had actually started my journal in May of 2013.

[00:03:28] Lori Massicot: Come on. And I quit drinking in August of 2013 and in the pages of those journals and the notes that I was writing to myself and the questions like, why do you keep doing this? That led me to quit drinking. And then after that, my journal has been my best friend, but it's really tough to do. And it is an obstacle.

[00:03:47] Lori Massicot: And I love that about you. And I appreciate that, that you sat down and you looked at the obstacles that we all face. And, you know, from having something that says sober or sobriety on the cover of it, To just sitting down with a brand [00:04:00] new journal and a sparkly pen with that blank page staring at you.

[00:04:03] Lori Massicot: What am I supposed to write? And so you really are guiding women

[00:04:08] Michelle Smith: through it. Yeah. And it's just the simplicity, you know, confidence and ease and simplicity have been like. So important to me and my journey is that we don't need to overcomplicate things. We don't need to overwhelm ourselves with things lower expectations of ourselves, especially through the early seasons of motherhood.

[00:04:28] Michelle Smith: And so just asking simple questions. On repeat. We think that this is repetitive and that, you know, but that's how we practice practice makes permanent and we have these tools and skills. We can revert back like me taking selfies of day 1. Eventually, this is going to be my last day 1 and just seeing the progression and the progress and.

[00:04:51] Michelle Smith: You're able to see patterns every other week's payday. I'm drinking on the weekends, right? Or my, my ex husband has the kids. [00:05:00] I tend to drink when my kids are gone. We see those patterns when we start documenting the good, the bad, the highs and the lows. And it's information. It's not meant to destroy us or to, you know, create shame.

[00:05:15] Michelle Smith: It's just simple awareness that all that makes sense that I do that. Pocket that lesson and use it to strengthen your journey moving forward. That is the the tool's purpose is that is to reflect, look back, Onward we go. Keep going.

[00:05:36] Lori Massicot: It's so much better when you get it out onto paper and you can see it than it is just in our brain because yeah, you, you don't really notice the fact that that pattern like, oh, payday.

[00:05:47] Lori Massicot: Oh, okay. I never even realized that until I wrote about it one day when I was just dumping everything out or the fact that when I am alone. I am very tempted to drink and I'm more motivated to go out and buy it if I'm, [00:06:00] if I had that weekend to myself or something, so yeah, I'm, I'm all for the journaling and the whole process going back because I am going to link your first episode with us in the episode show notes.

[00:06:11] Lori Massicot: When did you stop drinking?

[00:06:14] Michelle Smith: My sobriety date, my last drink was, so November 24th, 2016 is my sobriety date. So I stopped on the 23rd of November in 2016.

[00:06:27] Lori Massicot: And I remember last time when you were here, we were talking about it. Was that Thanksgiving or the day after Thanksgiving?

[00:06:33] Michelle Smith: It was my first, my first sober day was Thanksgiving day.

[00:06:37] Michelle Smith: Yeah. Yeah, that's a

[00:06:40] Lori Massicot: that's an important day. I feel I can kind of imagine what was happening in your life because I know around Thanksgiving for me that was a big drinking

[00:06:48] Michelle Smith: event. Yeah, you know it's fascinating and I don't think I'm alone in this that we would like pick sobriety dates like on the first of a month or on a Monday or [00:07:00] new year new you.

[00:07:02] Michelle Smith: Stop trying to find the significance of a day and just make that day. That's what's significant about it. That's what's going to be special. And I think we kind of use that as a way to like, you know, delay our journey. But it's like just pick the day because we're not promised tomorrow. We're just we're not.

[00:07:22] Michelle Smith: And if we want this, we've got to do it now or we're going to talk ourselves out of it. So mine just happened to be that day, which is insane to think about because if I would have planned that, who does that around the holidays? The hardest time. But I did it. I got through 24 hours, which was Super difficult to do.

[00:07:43] Michelle Smith: I couldn't go a day without drinking towards the end. And for me to be able to do that and keep that momentum for three more weeks into Christmas, holy cow, and then we're going into New Year's. And then I told myself the next milestone is now I have a sobriety date of [00:08:00] 2016 and we're in 2017 now and just finding those little milestones and like ways to celebrate to continue to keep pushing forward.

[00:08:10] Michelle Smith: Ups your confidence. It did mine and it made me wanna continue to keep going to see what else I was capable of doing. And we talk about superpowers, you know, when we get sober. I've done so much more in the six years of my sobriety than I have in over two decades. It's just insane. I

[00:08:28] Lori Massicot: agree with you and that's such a good point.

[00:08:30] Lori Massicot: 'cause I know that mindset and I know why we do it. We've gotta wait. Right? It's August when we're recording this. I'm going to wait until January 1st, 2024 and that's when I'm going to do it. But when you look at it, and I feel like so many people Don't end up that way. Don't end up with a special day.

[00:08:50] Lori Massicot: They end up with the day. They are so tired of their themselves. They are so tired of the BS of drinking. And that's where I was on August 11th. I mean, that was [00:09:00] it. I just, I had no plan, no plan on quitting drinking that day. I was just so tired of myself. So if you're out there and you're waiting for that special day, rethink that because any day that we claim for ourselves, that's very special.

[00:09:12] Lori Massicot: And I can't imagine ever setting out and saying, I'm going to quit drinking on Thanksgiving.

[00:09:18] Michelle Smith: Nope. Never would have done it. Nope. But it, it just happens to be that day. Like, you know how we hear people are like they're rock bottom. So they have this epiphany or, you know, they have this aha moment or they surrender.

[00:09:32] Michelle Smith: It's all just, we're done. We're tired. Like. Alcohol for me stopped working. I could drink three bottles of wine in two hours flat, pass out. Like, it just, it didn't do what it promised me anymore. And it never really did, but I convinced myself that it was a tool, that it helped me, that it was legal, that I didn't have to leave my kids if I didn't have to leave the house.

[00:09:56] Michelle Smith: And they're just lies that we tell ourselves to justify our actions. [00:10:00] And I was sick and tired of disappointing my kids, my partner. Myself, everybody who loved me, alcohol never loved me, and it took me away from everybody who did. And I finally had this one moment of strength to say, I'm done. I'm done. And, you know, I think when we take negotiation off the table, and we stop with the moderation game, and we're just finally at a place where we've played it long enough to know that tug of war, it's never going to happen.

[00:10:30] Michelle Smith: There's never going to be a, I'm never going to be able to find moderation. How are you going to be okay with that, Michelle? Are you going to be able to do that? Because you Can do anything you want to do in this world, except for one thing. And that one thing is consuming alcohol that literally is destroying your body from the inside out anyway.

[00:10:49] Michelle Smith: So finding freedom and giving that power up and it's a non negotiable. So I don't have to play around with that anymore. You know, I have to sit in the [00:11:00] discomfort and the shame and the feelings that I've ran from, from so long and know that it can be uncomfortable and it can be really hard. And I can get through it.

[00:11:10] Michelle Smith: It's not going to kill me. And so that's what I think a lot of women need to hear is just, it's okay to feel. And I think the only way out of the pain is through the pain and it's just the more we keep digging, the more shame we have and we carry because we continue to not show up for ourselves and the people that we love.

[00:11:29] Michelle Smith: So, make today the day and take negotiation and moderation off the table. It just drives me insane when I hear everything in moderation, there's some things we just can't do in moderation.

[00:11:45] Lori Massicot: Yeah, I'm raising my hand to that. I loved everything that you just said. I'm so happy for you. And yes, sing it sister, because that's it.

[00:11:54] Lori Massicot: And I can do anything in life that I want, but I cannot drink alcohol. Yeah, [00:12:00] there's so many other things to do. Honestly, before we dive into our topic, which is, you know, talking about a daily check in with ourselves. Did you take a selfie on day one?

[00:12:11] Michelle Smith: I did. I had a lot of selfies because I had a lot of day ones.

[00:12:17] Lori Massicot: Oh, did you track your progress through selfies in that first year? I did. Oh, that's so awesome. Michelle. Have you shared that on Instagram? Like all of

[00:12:26] Michelle Smith: them? No, I, you know, I've been holding out on a lot of the photos. Videos weren't really a thing back then. And social media was a was available, but I just, I didn't really use it that much.

[00:12:38] Michelle Smith: Thank goodness. Because I'm sure I would have. Written some wild posts under the influence, but I have a lot of documentation, a lot of pictures, a lot of stuff that I'm kind of holding out on, like, just kind of dripping some of that stuff when I feel it's deemed appropriate, you know, like my clients and stuff.

[00:12:56] Michelle Smith: I share that with them because I want them to know that they're not alone [00:13:00] and what they're telling me. I I've been there too. So, but yeah, it's. You don't want to take them at the time because it's embarrassing and it's just like hide them in your phone. Save it. It's just like weight loss journey. You know, when we get healthy and we go on these, these journeys, man, it's going to be important for me to look back because sometimes, you know, we don't think that we're making progress.

[00:13:22] Michelle Smith: And so. seeing those photos. It's like, yeah, I really am, you know, so you don't have to post them on social media, but keep them for yourself. You're going to see your face clear up. You're going to see more smiling. It's just, it's a pretty cool tool to use just like journaling. So I love taking those photos.

[00:13:43] Lori Massicot: I think so too. It's something that I wish that I would have done, and I asked you if you'd shared them on social media because you're so good on your social media and you're very active on it, but I do feel like that's something that is so nice to have for yourself. Like you don't have to share it with anybody, you can have it for yourself.

[00:13:58] Lori Massicot: Okay, let's [00:14:00] talk about a daily self check in. And this is a big part of your book. Can you describe what a daily self check in is?

[00:14:08] Michelle Smith: Yeah, you know, so the way that I started doing it is. I was waking up on the defense, not the offense. And what I mean by that is I was starting my day already hung over, already had a head full of shame, regret, family wouldn't talk to me.

[00:14:25] Michelle Smith: So I'm like, I'm starting out on the wrong foot because of the way I ended the night. And I started waking up for my kids, not to my kids. And what I mean by that is I would set my alarm a little bit before they would get up because I needed that Zen time, that quiet time, pour a cup of coffee before I was hung over.

[00:14:46] Michelle Smith: And the kids were jumping on the bed, screaming, fighting, fighting over fruit snacks. That's no way to start your morning, right? I'm already on the defense. And so having some type of routine for me. [00:15:00] Was so important to be able to structure my day because our outlook and how we wake up really does dictate how our day is going to be.

[00:15:09] Michelle Smith: Yeah, we can start our day over at any time, but why not set yourself up for success? And my morning was like, literally 10 minutes. It was pouring a cup of coffee. Couldn't drink it until I. ingested, drank eight ounces of water. And I would look through my daily reflection, reflection book before. And then I started doing journaling.

[00:15:33] Michelle Smith: So it was like a three step process because again, I could drink three bottles of wine at night, but I couldn't get down eight ounces of water in the morning. And that was the first healthy habit that I picked up. I'm like, wow, I did this for 30 days. I'm feeling good. I'm going to now carry a water bottle with me, not just do the eight ounces and call it good.

[00:15:55] Michelle Smith: And it's just so fascinating to see these small, [00:16:00] habitual, healthy routines start to be implemented. And it's like, the sun's out. I'm going to go for a walk and bring my water bottle. Like, I'm retraining myself on how to structure and be healthy and take care of me. And It's so important to be able to do that.

[00:16:16] Michelle Smith: So that's kind of how I start my morning. And I've been doing that for six and a half years, almost seven years. And I don't care if it's boring. I don't care if it's repetitive. It works for me. Yeah, I

[00:16:29] Lori Massicot: definitely am with you on all of that. And if you, cause I want to talk to you about some obstacles that we face, because I feel like just making that time is super hard to do, but it's so important.

[00:16:40] Lori Massicot: And just like you said, having that one habit that seemed like it was hard to do, drinking the water, you know, having that habit first, then having your coffee, then having your reflection time. And what you've done with the guide is really help Women sat down with Getting it done. I feel like a lot sooner than just looking at a blank [00:17:00] page, not knowing what to ask yourself what to check in with.

[00:17:04] Lori Massicot: And I do think that a daily self check in is self care. It's adding structure to your day and it's really focused on, okay, what is happening in my life today versus getting up and rushing out the door, getting up and taking care of the kids and everybody else. That's so important for us to get and stay sober to check in with ourselves.

[00:17:26] Michelle Smith: Absolutely. Absolutely. Self care is essential. And we hear it all the time. You can't pour from an empty cup. And I was just like, I'm a mom. That's my role. I'll take care of me later. And it feels selfish. And it's really not. And so that whole system is just something that works for me. It's a method that Is simple.

[00:17:45] Michelle Smith: I found ease with it. I found comfort and structure and I just kept doing it and I just want to see more women implement that because I've I've seen so much success with it that I know it can continue to, you know, we can share that with other people who [00:18:00] can find their own system with those tools. Yeah,

[00:18:04] Lori Massicot: absolutely.

[00:18:05] Lori Massicot: I feel like especially with the women that I work with, and I'm curious with you, are you seeing like when you're, when you're talking to women with your clients or just anybody in general and just saying, you know, what do you do in the morning for yourself? I find that a lot of women are not doing anything for themselves in the morning especially when they're drinking.

[00:18:22] Lori Massicot: And it's a lot of aha moments that are happening, which I love a good aha moment. Do you feel like there are obstacles for women to be able to have this time for themselves in the

[00:18:32] Michelle Smith: morning? Absolutely. I mean, especially, I mean, working out of the house moms, you know, I remember doing 12 hour shifts and having them a daycare by 6 a.

[00:18:41] Michelle Smith: m. Not picking them up until 6 p. m. Like there's always going to be a barrier. There's always going to be an obstacle and we can work around it. We can work, go underneath, go on the side, go above it. We have to find a way to make it work. And sometimes something else has to give. You know, and [00:19:00] for me, like an example is I had to give up the five course meals like I was always just raised that you cook these lavish meals.

[00:19:08] Michelle Smith: And, you know, it's this perfect, you know, picture. Perfect. Leave it to Bieber family of this is just how it's supposed to be. The man works, you cook, you do this, you do that. But the thing is, is that I then worked full time and I didn't just, you know, just because I work out of the house doesn't mean my responsibilities as a mom or a wife go to the way side.

[00:19:27] Michelle Smith: So I was stretched so thin and I know that other women are feeling the same way. So I got a meal service. I cut back on how much I was going to home cook and either brought in pizza and called it good, or, you know, did hello fresh. I got a cleaning lady so I could spend four hours. Like, with my family on the weekends, instead of cleaning all my toilets, I found ways to make it work, even though it wasn't really what I wanted, until I really had it and realized this is a good thing, this isn't me [00:20:00] being lazy, it's okay to ask for help, because if I don't, something's going to give, and it's going to be my mental health, and My mental health is going to direct me right back to a bottle of pills or a bottle of alcohol and I had already made up my mind.

[00:20:16] Michelle Smith: Michelle, you are a person who doesn't drink anymore. So how are you going to get this done and and stay sober? So I think that that's what's so important about self care is that it's not selfish and it's really caring for yourself, Lori. That's what self care is. How do you care for yourself? You speak kindly to yourself.

[00:20:37] Michelle Smith: You hydrate your body, you move your body and your body will be good to you in return. And me just coming to that realization changed the game for me completely. Yeah,

[00:20:50] Lori Massicot: because you start when, especially when you're checking in with yourself in the morning, you're dedicating that time to yourself. You're setting the tone for the day, right?

[00:20:56] Lori Massicot: I matter. And like you were saying, it's so helpful. [00:21:00] Just the tips about the meals, like knowing in the morning what you're going to be eating for the evening, you know, is. Really refreshing, honestly, especially for you if you are triggered by being in the kitchen, if you are going to have a really stressful day and you know that you're going to get home and that's going to cause extra stress, like being that well planned is a game changer to doing all of this and being able to do it because we tell ourselves we can't do it.

[00:21:25] Lori Massicot: Well, there's certain things that you have to do to set yourself up. And one of those things is to check in with yourself in the morning and And plan for the day.

[00:21:33] Lori Massicot: The first question in your journal is how I'm feeling right now. And you have all kinds of emojis there that are really easy to identify a feeling, talk about the importance of checking in with our feelings.

[00:21:48] Michelle Smith: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's so important to look at a spectrum of how we're feeling.

[00:21:57] Michelle Smith: So instead of a light switch, it's on or off. I'm either having a good [00:22:00] day or I'm having a bad day. Why don't we look at it like a thermostat? We can adjust accordingly because how many feelings and thoughts do we have and emotions throughout the day? hundreds, thousands of different feelings. And so if we're tapping in with ourselves, like I do, I check in to make sure I still have some psychological energy because we have this cup that we wake up with every day and we get to decide how much we pour out.

[00:22:22] Michelle Smith: And I was pouring all of it out at work because work was really important and I was growing and you know, I worked really hard to get to where I was. So when I switched and made that transition home. Home into mom mode. I had nothing left to give. I was depleted. I was exhausted. I did not want to hear the kids fighting.

[00:22:39] Michelle Smith: I didn't want to cook dinner. I didn't want to go to the gym. I had to change something, you know? And so having times throughout the day, even if it's morning and night bookending is what I call it. You check in with yourself and do this little mini routine for 10 minutes. Close it. Bookend it. Wrap it up with gratitude.

[00:22:59] Michelle Smith: [00:23:00] How did it go? Where can I improve? What am I going to do different? Tomorrow has changed again. The game for me. So I what I end up doing now is either. This sounds silly, but whenever I'd walk through a doorway or whenever I would refill my water was like a prompt to check in on that that thermometer.

[00:23:19] Michelle Smith: And see where I'm where I'm at and where I'm exhausted and what's going on that is getting me to that place. You know, I think we always want to reach for self care when we're in crisis mode, like a pedicure is not going to help you when you are completely depleted. Right? Self care is caring for yourself to the point where you don't get to burn out and you don't get to that huge stress.

[00:23:42] Michelle Smith: I mean, we're all going to have it, but yeah. Where are the tools that we're equipped with to be able to manage it until the fire is out. And so that, you know, that's those are a couple little tips and tricks that I use just to check in with myself because it can get away from us and we can just start [00:24:00] eating our feelings or.

[00:24:02] Michelle Smith: Overexercising our feelings or, you know, Amazon, we all get on that app a little bit too much. You know, we're looking for something outside of ourself to fill an unmet need essentially. Yeah

[00:24:17] Lori Massicot: definitely. I love the fact that you put in the emojis, because this is what I want to say when you're asking yourself that question.

[00:24:25] Lori Massicot: And this has got to be an obstacle for so many of us. And it would have been for me back then, because I would have been. I'm not sure exactly how I feel. I don't know why I feel this way, you know, naming our feelings is not something that I learned when I was younger. I was, you know, I heard a lot of, and this isn't against my parents or anybody else, but you know, you shouldn't feel this way or you should feel this way, you know, that type of thing.

[00:24:48] Lori Massicot: And so checking in with our feelings first thing, and I love the analogy of the cup. Because if we only have so much in our cup, if we're pouring it out in one area of our life, then [00:25:00] in our lives, where are we going to be left for our time for ourselves? And really identifying what we do need because it's not alcohol.

[00:25:10] Lori Massicot: I know that we all thought that at one point or think that now, and there's no judgment here. You know that at 250 and beyond. We do not judge this kind of stuff because it's hard. But being able to get up in the morning, how do I feel? How do I feel right now? Yeah. That's a good

[00:25:25] Michelle Smith: question. And just like waking up after a night of drinking, we're already waking up on the defense by just, how do we feel?

[00:25:34] Michelle Smith: Oh, I feel like a piece of crap and I'm buried in shame because now my partner won't talk to me. My kids are disappointed. I have to call in sick to work because I, you know, liquor, I smell like liquor. Like you're going to have a horrible day. I get to choose how I choose to wake up. If I don't drink. I get to wake up refreshed, proud of myself, and my day is going to be dictated based off of that.[00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Michelle Smith: And so, yeah, check your, you're so right. I was raised the same way. And it's like, you know, it's important for us to remember those self awareness is huge, but don't. Judge your, you know, I was called I say, don't judge your judging. So don't judge yourself for feeling a certain way. If you're feeling overwhelmed and anxious, and you're really upset because these kids, it doesn't mean you don't love your kids.

[00:26:22] Michelle Smith: It just means that you're overworked and you're overwhelmed and something has to give and it can't be your mental health. And so feelings aren't facts. It's okay to feel something. And not stay attached to it. It's just it is what it is. And so again, you're going to have a different feeling and emotion when somebody cuts you off on the freeway or somebody pays it forward in the line of Starbucks for you.

[00:26:44] Michelle Smith: That's how quick it changes. Right? It can be good. It can be bad. It's messy. It's all over the place. So let's just watch. Like a conveyor belt, one emotion come and go just as fast as the next one's going to come and go. And I think [00:27:00] that, that mindset shift for me. Is was so important that I can feel this and I'm going to name it because it means something and it's important to address what it is and why it's happening and then let it go.

[00:27:15] Michelle Smith: Bless and release.

[00:27:17] Lori Massicot: Bless and release. I love that so much. Yeah, I think as we get older, it's never too late to learn how to validate our feelings and stop pushing them away because that as well as freedom from alcohol is like true freedom. It's true freedom when we can be with ourselves and not even know what we're feeling and still just be okay with it, like whatever it is, you know, I'm going to check in with myself and then I'm going to do whatever I need to do to take care of myself.

[00:27:45] Michelle Smith: And you know what, it looks so different in the season of life, empty nesters right midlife new moms. There's always a way to make those pockets of time is what I call it. And for me, the midst of where I'm [00:28:00] at in motherhood, that pocket of time looks like podcasts like yours that I listened to in the car on the way to football practice.

[00:28:08] Michelle Smith: I have to listen. I don't have the time to maybe hit a meeting and real, you know, in real life in person meeting. But I do have time if I get creative on how I can do an audible book versus a hardcover book. You know, there's ways to make it happen because if you have that head full of sobriety, drinking is never the same.

[00:28:29] Michelle Smith: So even when I was drinking, I would still listen to these stories and listen to people that had just similar struggles than me to let me know I'm not alone and I'm filling my head full of some educational tool to remind me That alcohol has no value. It has no reason to be in my life. So self care might not be getting pedicures.

[00:28:50] Michelle Smith: It might be going to the bathroom alone and having the tiny little fingers through the cracks, right? You might not be able to go out to a hammock like I'm able to now. It might, [00:29:00] you know, be upgraded to the garage. I mean, you know, we have to just make do with what it It looks like in that moment and not get caught up into this is how life's going to be and motherhood's going to be forever because it's not as you know, plot twist, right?

[00:29:15] Michelle Smith: When we have a phase down there onto the next phase and we're up for the next challenge. So buckle up, identify our feelings, equipped ourself with tools, coping strategies, self care, self love, kindness, forgiveness. All of the things, and it just makes for a smoother transition and just journey throughout life.

[00:29:38] Michelle Smith: Right.

[00:29:40] Lori Massicot: Definitely. I love all of that. It's so true. And, you know, just starting the day off with self care. It's going to make you feel so special. And you don't have to do these long morning routines. You really don't. And, you know, Yeah. I am all for them. If you can do it, but I think a lot of women feel so bad because they don't have the time and they haven't made the time [00:30:00] for themselves, those 10 minute chunks.

[00:30:02] Lori Massicot: And like you said, driving in the car, you're keeping it top of mind by listening to maybe a sobriety podcast or listening to some other self improvement podcast. You care about yourself, and that's the message, and that's the message through this entire book and your guide. It's just, this is you helping somebody really care about themselves, and that's why I love it so much, and I appreciate it so much.

[00:30:24] Lori Massicot: What other tips can you give to someone who wants to start this practice tomorrow, other than go on Amazon and order? Living sober, living free, because that will come quickly. But tomorrow morning when somebody wakes up, what are some practical tips that you can give them?

[00:30:43] Michelle Smith: I would implement the same, the same that I did at the very beginning and see how it works for you. You know, until a journal comes, use a spiral notebook, you know, use a post it note. I have them all over. This one says, I can do today. I can do today. I'm not going to promise for tomorrow, [00:31:00] but I'm going to do today.

[00:31:01] Michelle Smith: And my other one says, don't, I don't do overwhelm. Right. And so have those have that little, that little message until you get the journal and hydrate your body. If we're still drinking our body. Is dehydrated. It needs water. Do those two things or just one of them and implement that and see how you do because, you know, self self discipline is what we need, right?

[00:31:27] Michelle Smith: Willpower is only going to take us so far. And then like that psychological energy, it's gone. Right. So we're, we're done. Our tanks empty, let's not get to that point, you know? And so a tip for a lot of moms to mid age, any age is that, you know, I don't do overwhelm because overwhelmed leads Michelle to drink.

[00:31:46] Michelle Smith: So what's overwhelmed? More than two sports for my kids because I can't be in four different sports and do this all alone. I'm not Elastigirl, right? I don't do jobs that make me feel like a piece of crap and I don't feel [00:32:00] valued and there's no loyalty and I come home crying, stressed out, yelling at everybody.

[00:32:05] Michelle Smith: Michelle has to get a job, right? She has to get one that's going to support her. And her mental health at the same time. So anything that I have to say no to, I want to say yes next time. I just have to say no right now because it builds confidence, right? It creates boundaries. And I'm the first to admit I'm a people pleaser, perfectionist.

[00:32:27] Michelle Smith: I'm recovering from that. And it's really hard to tell people no. But I have to because if I continue to do that, everything else falls to the wayside. And it's not weakness, right? When we're going through this journey, sobriety is a full time job. I don't care if you're just sober, curious, or, you know, you're, you know, dependent on alcohol.

[00:32:51] Michelle Smith: This is a full time job. We're unlearning beliefs and morals, you know, and values that we have believed to be [00:33:00] true for a really long period of time. And it's not just going to... Be an overnight practice that we're going to miraculously be cured from this vice that has been such a crutch and glamorized by the world for so long.

[00:33:15] Michelle Smith: Be kind and be gentle to yourself and really just start creating awareness when you do journal, because I promise you those patterns. Are right there on that dang piece of paper, everything that you need lies within you get still enough to listen. And you'll have all the answers that you need and confidence comes with repetition and keeping a promise to yourself.

[00:33:41] Michelle Smith: The confidence is in the doing do hard things and it pays off

[00:33:48] Lori Massicot: so good. It's so true. That's how we find confidence and how we find the cycle of beating ourselves up is by consistently doing the things that we know. We don't want to do that. Don't work for us [00:34:00] anymore. And especially with our drinking. And I feel like when you have a journal like Michelle's and you just set it out somewhere where you can see it, maybe you tuck it away in your makeup drawer somewhere where you're going to look, or maybe you can talk it somewhere where you know you're going to see first thing you will get in the habit of doing it because you make it Consistent.

[00:34:19] Lori Massicot: You don't have to do it every day. If you miss a day, my goodness, it's okay. You don't have to go back. Just continue on. And that's how we build that consistency and that habit. So well done. I want to talk to you since this episode is coming out at the end of National Recovery Month. What are you seeing in the world of recovery today and sobriety?

[00:34:38] Lori Massicot: Can you give us some good

[00:34:39] Michelle Smith: news? You know, the, it's, the movement is here, whether it's sober curiosity, whether it is choosing to live an alcohol free lifestyle, be a non drinker, this lifestyle isn't just for people that are alcoholics like me, like, it doesn't have to be, [00:35:00] I, Haven't had the yet yet. I haven't lost my job.

[00:35:03] Michelle Smith: Gotten a D. U. Y. People are leaning in and getting curious about their relationship with alcohol way before. They're completely dependent on it and then they just can't stop drinking. Right? It makes it that much harder. There is enough space for everybody to, you know. Call and, you know, get mocktails. I mean, these bartenders are knowing what this stuff is.

[00:35:23] Michelle Smith: I've been traveling a lot this summer and you wouldn't believe all of the non alcoholic drinks that are either in sports arenas or, you know, at bars now. People used to look at me like I had three heads when I asked for. A mocktail or what's, what do you have that's non alcoholic and now it's just become a thing.

[00:35:42] Michelle Smith: And so that's really exciting to be able to see. And I think, just for the health of it, just for the health of it, I know I'm not going to drink. I, it doesn't make me feel good. Just like dairy. Right. I just, it's, it's good in the moment. 20 minutes later, I regret my decision. Right. [00:36:00] And so there's a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, medication, religion, supporting a loved one that is struggling or in recovery their space for all of us on the spectrum of alcohol use disorder.

[00:36:13] Michelle Smith: And there's so many different ways to recover that there's no perfect way other than your way. So I love celebrating all of that. Any opportunity I get, but for sober September national recovery month, , sober day, all of those things. I welcome it and I embrace it. There's a lot of talk and chatter about, like, sober curiosity being trendy, and I think.

[00:36:36] Michelle Smith: It's fascinating from some people who were, you know, drinkers that are just really holding tight onto the denial. And well, if you can't do it in moderation, don't bash us. There's a difference between pro sobriety and anti drinking and I'm going to continue to support and root for anybody who chooses to remove alcohol from their life.

[00:36:54] Michelle Smith: And that doesn't mean that I'm bashing or shaming or judging a person who chooses to drink [00:37:00] responsibly. And there's more people that are saying. Especially on social media and, you know, Hollywood anywhere that people want to start this movement and be those people that will say alcohol doesn't add value to my life.

[00:37:13] Michelle Smith: There's a ripple effect to that and we're hearing it so much more today than we ever have. And, you know, we're just getting started. It's a thing and I, I just, I'm so excited to be here for it. Just like smoking, you know, it's. It's not, it's bad for you, you know, I mean, I don't even know how else to say it.

[00:37:34] Michelle Smith: It adds no value. It gives you something in the moment, you know, and I just see that shift happening with alcohol. And I think it's pretty cool. I think it's pretty cool. I think

[00:37:46] Lori Massicot: it's pretty cool too and I wanted to ask you that question because you are so active in the community and I just thank you for all the work that you do and I thank you for just having that wonderful Instagram that when you know me I get on Instagram every now and then and I see you I'm like, ah, [00:38:00] just it's so good.

[00:38:01] Lori Massicot: It just makes me so happy because I do feel the shift and I'm so excited to be a part of it as well in 2013. This wasn't happening for me, you know, and that's why I do feel like I've always said this from day one on this podcast. Midlife is the best time to go and stay alcohol free, get and stay sober, however you want to word it.

[00:38:22] Lori Massicot: And I believe that 2023 is the best time to be alcohol free and start this journey or go back to it. You know, if you've gotten off the rails a little bit like re. Visit it because it's worth it and it matters and yeah, I'm super excited to be a part of it and to have you as my friend and I want to thank you for coming on to the podcast and sharing about your wonderful book, Living Sober, Living Free.

[00:38:47] Lori Massicot: Tell us first what's

[00:38:48] Michelle Smith: next for you? So what's next for me? We're speaking on the road, empowering people and families, which is my passion. I am at the end of developing a [00:39:00] program for moms who are wanting to explore an alcohol free life. So that's going to be super fun.

[00:39:06] Michelle Smith: And a book, another book of some something different in the sobriety realm is something that I'm birthing right now. So there's definitely a lot coming. Recovery is the new black. com and recovery is a new black is pretty much on every single one of my social media platforms. As you said, I hang out the most on Instagram.

[00:39:27] Michelle Smith: We all kind of have that one platform that we, you know, go that we connect with because we know there's a trillion of them. But yeah, that's, that's where everyone can find me and just, you know, continue to keep empowering people and just pushing, pushing and pushing yourself towards a better lifestyle and midlife.

[00:39:44] Michelle Smith: Like you said, Lori, it's the perfect time today is the perfect time to take control of your relationship with alcohol and to live a healthier lifestyle. And like I said, at the beginning, if we're They're kind to our body. Our body will be kind to us in return. [00:40:00] So let's work with it and feed it what it needs to work and perform at its best.

[00:40:07] Michelle Smith: Hmm.

[00:40:07] Lori Massicot: I love it. Thank you so much,

[00:40:09] Michelle Smith: Michelle. Yeah. Thank you for having me, Lori