Goal Setting For the Different Stages of Motherhood
episode #271
Motherhood is a journey that is beyond rewarding, and challenging and is one that is never-ending.
This journey takes us through different roles, from being a full-time mom to transitioning into a part-time mom role, eventually becoming an 'on-call' mom. With each phase of motherhood comes its own set of challenges, especially when it comes to setting personal goals.
I invited Jennifer Chaney to the podcast to share her insights and expertise in transitioning to different stages throughout motherhood.
Jennifer’s work focuses on encouraging moms to prioritize self-care and establish personal goals as their children gradually chart their own course toward independence.
If you really want to figure out what your goals are for 2024. Figure out what your life goal is, and then work backward. Your life goal is an obituary. It sounds super morbid, but if you could envision somebody writing an obituary and giving an obituary at your passing, what is it going to say? - Jennifer Chaney
In this episode, Jennifer and I talk about:
How Jennifer transitioned from being a photographer into mentoring moms with teens
Jennifer’s experience with drinking alcohol, and why she decided to transition to an alcohol-free lifestyle
The different stages of motherhood: Full-time, part-time, and on-call mom.
Managing menopause and the signs I experienced when going through perimenopause
The impact Jennifer felt after losing her best friend at 50
The Role of Sleep, Nutrition, and Movement in Motherhood
How to redefine and set goals for yourself by starting small and being flexbile
Why consistency is key to making progress, creating new habits, and changing your life
Key Takeaway from this episode:
Our kids will always need us. It’s okay to give yourself permission to explore what you want as they become more independent.
It’s time to focus more on what we want for ourselves—our dreams and goals—to live the life we really want.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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[00:00:00] Lori M: Hi, Jennifer
[00:00:01] Jennifer: Hi there.
[00:00:03] Lori M: Welcome. We're coming to everyone
[00:00:05] Lori M: who's listening just from a earthquake at Jennifer's house, and she
[00:00:09] Lori M: just handled it with ease.
[00:00:12] Jennifer: It's one of those things you just get used to it. It's
[00:00:14] Lori M: Just like any California. Yeah,
[00:00:16] Lori M: any Californian. We all know. It's just like,
[00:00:19] Lori M: oh, is that what it is? It's so cute
[00:00:20] Lori M: to watch you. It's like, Hmm. Is that an earthquake?
[00:00:25] Jennifer: And I needed my Apple watch to confirm that. Yes, it
[00:00:27] Lori M: Yeah. Yes,
[00:00:28] Jennifer: Yeah.
[00:00:30] Lori M: Thank you very much. I'm excited. We're gonna talk about
[00:00:32] Lori M: goal setting for moms today
[00:00:34] Lori M: and the
[00:00:35] Lori M: different.
[00:00:35] Lori M: stages of motherhood because I love
[00:00:38] Lori M: the work that you
[00:00:38] Lori M: are doing. I love your website and I fell down the rabbit hole of Jennifer Cheney when I was looking for something about time management because that's where I'm at.
[00:00:48] Lori M: We search for the things that we need in our lives and focus and all of that. And then I started following you on Instagram and then I invited you onto the podcast.
[00:00:56] Lori M: So. Thank you for
[00:00:57] Jennifer: I'm so glad to be here.
[00:00:59] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:00:59] Lori M: [00:01:00] We've had
[00:01:00] Jennifer: I want more women talking about midlife
[00:01:03] Lori M: midlife, motherhood, habits, all of the, all of the things that I think that we put to the back burner when we're
[00:01:11] Lori M: raising our kids. And as I know we're gonna talk about today, the open nest versus the
[00:01:16] Lori M: empt nest, and
[00:01:17] Lori M: what do we do?
[00:01:18] Lori M: What led you to mentoring moms?
[00:01:22] Jennifer: Oh my gosh. Motherhood. Just being a mom,
[00:01:25] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:01:26] Jennifer: blindsided me. I was not for almost that that shift, that dramatic shift in who I was to who I became. Like I was not prepared for it. I was going off of, media, movies, what I saw around me, and it was supposed to be this like really smooth transition.
[00:01:49] Jennifer: Everything was supposed to be great. The hardest part was labor. Once you did that, you're good. And then I realized, oh no, this is really hard. I'm losing [00:02:00] myself. And the reason why it seems like it's easy is because people don't tell the truth. The truth about the ups and downs and the, the rollercoaster, the chaos, the, the sadness, the emotions, the joy.
[00:02:16] Jennifer: They don't talk about that. And one of the ways I dealt with that, with that feeling of being lost and disrupted almost, was start my own business. And so I was a family photographer for 17 years and that's when I started really observing moms like in their natural habitat. 'cause I would go into their homes and it confirmed and affirmed everything that I was thinking.
[00:02:47] Jennifer: I saw these other women my age, similar scenarios, feeling the same feelings of feeling a little bit lost, disconnected sad. In all honesty, they desperately [00:03:00] wanted happy photos. And this is not all of the women I worked with,
[00:03:02] Jennifer: but in general, you could start picking things up, whether they said it or not, because when you're behind the camera, you're searching for show for photos, you're searching for the shot to get, and there's so much that you see that's beneath the surface that initially it made me really sad and I was like, well, this is where we all are.
[00:03:26] Jennifer: And then I started thinking, okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, we could do better. And I started coaching and mentoring with another coach, moms, and I was coaching under this person for quite a while, and then it turned into a more full-time position for myself. I switched it to full-time during the pandemic because I was no longer able to go into people's homes
[00:03:51] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:03:52] Jennifer: them.
[00:03:54] Jennifer: And I realized that it was also a crutch for me because photography was easy for me. I knew it. [00:04:00] It was great. It helped me keep my identity, I made my own money and at the same time, it didn't feel quite right. I was so drawn to this coaching. I was so drawn to women feel better, helping women get
[00:04:22] Jennifer: perspective to find their footing.
[00:04:26] Jennifer: So I took what was part-time, my coaching for moms and their businesses at home, and I switched it and it became this bigger midlife mentor because I was also going through these major, major life changes.
[00:04:43] Jennifer: I was going through menopause. I was going, my, my oldest was in high school, middle of high school, and I knew there were changes coming along with that. My marriage was comfortable, like almost too comfortable, and [00:05:00] there were all these flags and these signs, and I started exploring and experimenting and discovering I wanted out of life.
[00:05:11] Jennifer: And. Three years later I've embraced it and it's a business now, and I cannot, just talking about it makes me just so happy, and it's one of the highlights of my life, is just knowing that I'm doing something that helps people feel better. It's not about feeling perfect, it's not about feeling amazing.
[00:05:36] Jennifer: It's just about feeling better and not settling for mediocre.
[00:05:43] Lori M: I can see it. Your face is lighting up when you're
[00:05:45] Lori M: talking about it. I can see your, your passion. I can feel it. And we had a great chance to talk for almost a half an hour before we started recording, just about everything going on and yeah, I, I totally relate to so much of what you were saying and what I [00:06:00] was thinking of what was coming to mind when we hear moms. Typically we think of little kids like you're a mom, a little kid, but
[00:06:07] Lori M: my goodness, we're still moms
[00:06:10] Lori M: We're still moms, right? And they get older and they're going through challenges, and then we're going through challenges. And we're at the I was going through perimenopause when my son was in high school, and now I'm post menopause when he is a young adult.
[00:06:24] Lori M: He's 22. And we both have our challenges,
[00:06:28] Lori M: Personally, and Yeah.
[00:06:30] Lori M: it's,
[00:06:31] Lori M: yeah,
[00:06:31] Jennifer: you know you were perimenopausal, did you know that was happening?
[00:06:34] Lori M: I did
[00:06:36] Jennifer: how how did you know that?
[00:06:38] Lori M: How did I know? Well, I didn't right away. Let me, let me rephrase that. I started doing my own research because the doctors were telling me I was okay.
[00:06:46] Lori M: I'd go in for blood work, I'd go in with all of my misery, and they would say, you're not there yet. That was always
[00:06:52] Lori M: what I heard. You're just not
[00:06:53] Lori M: there yet.
[00:06:54] Lori M: And then I found a really good gynecologist who really helped me understand
[00:06:58] Lori M: things, 'cause I was having [00:07:00] heart palpitations, a ton
[00:07:01] Lori M: of anxiety. I was still drinking
[00:07:03] Lori M: at the time. And there was so much going on. I was stiff. I mean, I was just like, I had so many different things. So I
[00:07:10] Lori M: really took it upon myself to go out and research and that's when I just fell in love with learning more about menopause
[00:07:18] Lori M: and knowing that it's so important for us to advocate for ourselves because honestly, every time I left to the doctor, after I've, I've started researching, I felt better because I knew that I wasn't alone in this,
[00:07:31] Lori M: even if the blood work wasn't say, I mean,
[00:07:34] Lori M: I forget, one doctor told me, well, you gotta come in like five days after your cycle or so, something like that to get your blood
[00:07:40] Lori M: work done. So we can even tell 'em like, well, what happens when you're skipping your cycles
[00:07:44] Lori M: What do you do then?
[00:07:46] Jennifer: Right,
[00:07:47] Lori M: Yeah. So, yeah, I knew, and then that's kind of what led me to, well, not kind of, that was a big part of what led me to quit drinking.
[00:07:54] Jennifer: Okay. I, the second you said drinking and the symptoms. , I, that [00:08:00] was my initial piece too when I stopped drinking was the alcohol impacted my symptoms so much, especially hot flashes and the night sweats. If I had alcohol or sugar, I, I, I couldn't sleep.
[00:08:15] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:08:16] Jennifer: can't sleep and then you're a wreck.
[00:08:18] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Jennifer: I have not looked back by that, but that's such a great decision to stop alcohol. I do think it's really hard for, well, living in the suburbs, it's hard for moms to not drink because it's how we handle the boredom, it's how we handle the pain. It's also a habit and it's what everybody else is doing.
[00:08:43] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:08:44] Jennifer: And I find it's really hard not to drink around people. But over the past three years, that's, it's become easier.
[00:08:52] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:08:54] Jennifer: I just find other things to talk about. And we also had to switch some friend groups. [00:09:00] It just wasn't
[00:09:00] Lori M: interesting. So I, I wanna tell the, the sweet folks out there who are listening to us right now, I had no intention of even talking about alcohol on this podcast, even though this is a podcast about helping women create an alcohol free lifestyle. Um, not all my guests are alcohol free and it's none of my business.
[00:09:19] Lori M: And so when you and I were talking, this
[00:09:21] Lori M: is what came up for you.
[00:09:22] Lori M: And can you share a little bit about like what led you to put down the alcohol?
[00:09:30] Jennifer: I drank a lot when I was younger, probably to numb the pain. I started in high school and then in college I tapered off, which I did the exact opposite of what a lot of people
[00:09:42] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:09:43] Jennifer: tape, they start drinking a little bit more in high school, and then they go a lot in college. I didn't, and I started seeing how people were behaving.
[00:09:51] Jennifer: I dated an alcoholic. My dad was an alcoholic, so. I observed a lot of what was happening, and that's kind of [00:10:00] how I live my life is by gauging other people's actions and, and results and deciding whether or not that's gonna work for me. And I think the pandemic is actually also where I stopped drinking when probably a lot of people started drinking because I, it was just sad to me.
[00:10:21] Jennifer: It made me sad. It made an already difficult situation worse. And my husband doesn't drink and he doesn't drink for health reasons, like his own thing. He just, he hasn't, he hasn't touched alcohol over seven years and I of started tapering off then, I think. I don't know, it's just, it was easier than I thought.
[00:10:47] Jennifer: I don't think I have an addictive personality, but I probably do. If I was really honest, I think that my addiction, . Would be food and online shopping, which I listened to one of your episodes on that, and I felt [00:11:00] incredibly called out and I bookmarked the episode so that I can listen to little snippets every once in a while to ground myself before I purchase $300 worth of things that I'm going to wind up returning and wasting my time doing things that really, that doesn't serve me, that doesn't make me happy.
[00:11:19] Jennifer: All it did was distract me for 45 minutes on the computer surfing. That's all it did, and I'm, I don't know, the alcohol was natural to stop drinking and I felt, I feel better, I feel in control. I also had just the menopause, having that really severe reaction to any, any
[00:11:42] Jennifer: kind
[00:11:42] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:11:43] Jennifer: I could probably do one drink and be okay, but I feel it immediately.
[00:11:49] Jennifer: I think that I just, menopause maybe made us a little bit more sensitive.
[00:11:52] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:11:52] Jennifer: it's just age and we're more observant.
[00:11:55] Lori M: Mm-Hmm. . That's fantastic.
[00:11:57] Jennifer: and, and people can drink around me. I literally have [00:12:00] zero judgment.
[00:12:01] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:12:02] Jennifer: I, think alcohol is a great way to connect with people because it, it helps bring down barriers.
[00:12:11] Jennifer: I also feel like that's a challenge that I'm willing to take on to do it without alcohol. It's hard, it's also really, I, growth too. The more I can do it, the easier it gets and then hopefully maybe somebody will follow that as well if they need it.
[00:12:33] Lori M: Yeah. Congratulations to you
[00:12:35] Lori M: and your husband. I think it's fantastic, and it's so cool because I really do feel like so many of us have either our own personal story when it comes to drinking and alcohol or someone in our lives that we
[00:12:47] Lori M: can relate to, and especially as we get older, we're looking around going, what's not working for me anymore? Anything that's not working,
[00:12:55] Lori M: it has to go.
[00:12:56] Jennifer: that's it. I think that's it. I think we have the freedom and [00:13:00] we have the objectivity to be more selective. I think that when we're younger, like even, in your forties when you've got kids, you're too busy. There's too much going on to, I mean, honestly, to really care. A lot of times we're just running and we're just trying to survive.
[00:13:18] Lori M: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. I,
[00:13:22] Lori M: I love it that it, it came up and that it was relatable and it's very helpful. I know for people who are listening, there doesn't have to be this rock bottom, there doesn't have to be this big thing. It could just be you waking up one morning and going, I don't feel
[00:13:35] Lori M: good. I wanna feel better.
[00:13:37] Jennifer: , you mentioned anxiety, One of the symptoms that I did not know was anxiety.
[00:13:44] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:13:44] Jennifer: I said, I was not really an anxious person. I know that menopause spiked my anxiety. I know that for a fact, and alcohol makes that so much worse.
[00:13:57] Lori M: We've worked so hard to raise our kids and, and I [00:14:00] have one kid, there could be somebody out there listening who has 10 kids, right?
[00:14:03] Lori M: We've worked so hard. We put so much of our time and energy and love and compassion into their lives.
[00:14:09] Lori M: And then when we are at that phase where they're transitioning out of the house and they're getting older, I think a lot of women I did was like, what's next for me? What is this
[00:14:20] Lori M: gonna look like
[00:14:21] Lori M: for me? And I'm so happy that I was sober at the time because who knows
[00:14:25] Lori M: what it would have
[00:14:26] Lori M: looked like if I was drinking. You talk a lot about the different stages of
[00:14:30] Lori M: motherhood. Could you break that down for us?
[00:14:33] Jennifer: This is, this is one of those things that was born from, I had only known before, if I had had this vision, this insight, if somebody had told me, Hey, don't look at motherhood as a light switch that's been flipped on. It's just gonna stay that way forever. Look at it more like it is these phases we have, just like our kids have phases of childhood into [00:15:00] adolescence, into adulthood, or young adulthood.
[00:15:04] Jennifer: We have phases too, and I just didn't know that until I started living it. And then I started talking to people about their experiences and I now see motherhood in three stages. You have your full-time mom when your kids are under 10, and then you're part-time mom, when your kids are tweens and teens.
[00:15:28] Jennifer: And then you have the on-call mom, and that's when your kids are out of the house. And knowing that and looking at how your energy and how you show up is kind of like a job. So when your kids are younger, they need you more. need that full-time commitment from you. That doesn't mean it's all you do.
[00:15:52] Jennifer: A lot of women, I, I mean I worked, a lot of women have multiple things going on. It just means with that time you [00:16:00] have. , you're all in with motherhood and you have an understanding that that is That everything is temporary. I think that's my new mantra. Everything is temporary. It does not matter.
[00:16:14] Jennifer: And I had this understanding or this vision, this, that, that motherhood was permanent. Like this stage is forever because nobody told me that it wasn't. It was almost like, like I mentioned before, people just don't talk about the reality, the truth about how we change and grow. So the second stage of motherhood being that part-time mom, is that is based on your kids' needs actually.
[00:16:42] Jennifer: Actually all of this is based on the kids' needs as well. So mom is tweens, teens generally happens around, I. Middle school, sometimes it can ha happen earlier. You have to just pay attention to your kids. Like what? What do they need? They will [00:17:00] naturally start pulling away from us, and I know you experienced this, right?
[00:17:04] Jennifer: There's a point where your son was just like, I can do that myself, mom.
[00:17:08] Jennifer: Stop telling me what to do, mom.
[00:17:09] Jennifer: I got it. Really paying attention to that and giving them that gift of freedom to make mistakes, to figure things out. They're gaining their own independence. They're trying to figure out who they are that is your green light to give yourself more time.
[00:17:26] Jennifer: That time you were giving them when they were younger and they needed you more is now yours and this is where you get to start exploring more. So when your kids are younger and you're in that full-time mom it's almost like acceptance. Okay, here we are. This is where I am, and it's temporary. That part-time, mom phase.
[00:17:50] Jennifer: When they're pulling away and you have more time is almost where you get to start exploring. What do you wanna do? What do you wanna, what are you curious about? What are the things that, when [00:18:00] your kids were younger, would see or remember about hobbies or vacations, books people read? What did you see that other people were doing that you were like, oh, I wish I could do that, but I'm too busy.
[00:18:16] Jennifer: That's the stuff you get to start doing when you have a little bit more time. But being intentional about it is so important because it's easy to fill that extra time with busy work, with more house cleaning, with more shopping, with more of the boring stuff that doesn't really add to your life,
[00:18:38] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:18:39] Jennifer: so that when you hit that third stage of motherhood, which is permanent, this is when you, when your kids are the grown and flown.
[00:18:49] Jennifer: that's it. This is the stage you are in And a lot of women I see, hold on to that part-time mom, sometimes they wanna be the full-time
[00:18:58] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:18:58] Jennifer: hold on to [00:19:00] that phase when they really have transitioned to on-call Mom. that is, you are still a mom, you are mothering in a different way. You are almost like mothering on demand, which of course we don't really wanna do because we still wanna have our, our autonomy
[00:19:16] Jennifer: We don't wanna be doing dropping everything the second they call. But the idea that we are there in the background, we are here for you. I think that having that separation from your kids is so healthy and important. But when you're in that on-call mom phase, that's when you get to take the, all that experimenting you did and exploring you get to start.
[00:19:44] Jennifer: Engaging. You get to start having experiences and doing the things that you dabbled in earlier. This also turns out to be, which I've learned recently, I read the Art of the Impossible
[00:19:58] Jennifer: by
[00:19:59] Lori M: Oh [00:20:00] mm-Hmm.
[00:20:01] Jennifer: which is just my type of book. It's, it's science backed, and it's interesting, it's also a little hippie dippy, but it talk, but he talks about in the book the formula for finding your passion and purpose.
[00:20:17] Jennifer: This is not a new formula at all, but he, he puts it out in such an understandable and easy way to, to implement. I had been doing this and didn't know it, and the formula is I had been doing this and didn't know it, so I know it works. But the formula is you get curious. . you make a huge list of all the things that you're curious about, that you're interested in, that you dream about.
[00:20:45] Jennifer: Anything, everything, it does not matter, whatever you wanna, just like a brain dump major, whatever you wanna try. And it could be something that you know you'll never do, like you just don't have the funds to do it, or [00:21:00] you, it's too scary, or maybe you just physically aren't able to put it down there. Maybe there's a variation for you.
[00:21:07] Jennifer: So you have this massive list of at least 25 things, and I'm telling you that's hard
[00:21:14] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:21:15] Jennifer: we are so, moms specifically are so focused on giving to everybody else and seeing what everybody else is doing and making sure that everybody else is okay. That we don't have that same atten. We don't give that same, we don't remember how to give that same attention to ourselves.
[00:21:34] Jennifer: forget that we matter. . on that level. Like there's self-care, getting your hair done, getting your nails done, but that real deep self-care of paying attention to yourself and understanding yourself and thinking about what you want and how you feel that is missing, it's easy to put that aside [00:22:00] 'cause it's not tangible.
[00:22:02] Jennifer: Getting curious, having this list and then when you have more time and you can start doing this when the kids are still at home, because like when you have a junior and a senior in high school, they're probably driving. And if they're not driving, their friends are driving,
[00:22:21] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:22:21] Jennifer: in their rooms a lot.
[00:22:23] Jennifer: Like I was not prepared for that. I, I mean, it was exciting. They're in their rooms a lot. That door is closed. They're isolating. They are figuring out who they are. Oh my gosh, what a gift. They're still at home, but there's this separation. Take advantage of that. Start experiencing and doing some of those things on your curious list.
[00:22:46] Jennifer: And then when they are off and on their own, you have a foundation to work with. So at that point, you can start looking at all of your values, [00:23:00] your beliefs, that you would like to have changed in the world, or things that you feel like are imbalanced and you wanna have, you want, you wanna have shift, you wanna see a shift.
[00:23:15] Jennifer: You take your values and beliefs and you cross-Reference it to your curiosities and where you find intersections, especially if you can find multiple intersections. Like if you have three or four things on your list that have to do with, I don't know. Let's say animal, animal welfare, like, rescue, animal rescue, anything like that.
[00:23:40] Jennifer: And then one of your,
[00:23:45] Jennifer: one of your values and your beliefs is, has something to do with animals. Well, how can you, how can you put those together? Like that's where you can start finding your purpose. Because [00:24:00] these curiosities, you're gonna figure out what you're passionate about and when you can find that overlap, that intersection to what you believe in and what you value, that's your first step to finding passion.
[00:24:14] Jennifer: I mean, I'm sorry, correction. That's your first step to finding your purpose. And I love it and it makes so much sense because so many moms have immersed themselves in motherhood so fully that when their kids move out, there is this. . devastating for so many of them because they don't know what to do next.
[00:24:37] Jennifer: It doesn't take much to have a plan, even a loose plan. I, I'm always, I'm huge on loose plans,
[00:24:46] Lori M: Yeah, me too
[00:24:47] Jennifer: like short todo lists and lot of flexibility. It will help that transition. I see. And I've researched, so I know [00:25:00] that there's the numbers to back this up, divorce rates are incredibly high in an empty nest.
[00:25:06] Jennifer: They're very hard to track though, because people will get divorced a year of the kid, the, the youngest kid moving out. But over the next 10 years, there's also lot of divorces that happen that are most likely, again, it's hard for them to figure to nail it down. They're most likely due to the kids being gone.
[00:25:31] Jennifer: And there's no longer this common ground. I, I don't like that. I feel like there are things that we can do at, at the way earlier on to not only prevent that, but to have a better relationship. To have a better relationship with our, our partners, our, our parents, our kids, ourselves. Like this is our time.
[00:25:58] Jennifer: This is our time. [00:26:00] It is the first time since we were maybe in our twenties, that we have true choice, true choice. And this is not about, like, it doesn't matter about your finances, it doesn't matter about, your relationships with other people. If you figuring out who you are, what you stand for, and what you want to be doing, you can make decisions based on that, and your life will be better, you'll feel better.
[00:26:27] Jennifer: And everything comes down to feeling. I'm huge on goals. Huge on goals, the one thing I tell everybody is, doesn't matter what your goal is, you focus on the feeling and not the actual tangible outcome.
[00:26:42] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:26:43] Jennifer: You wanna lose weight. Don't focus on the scale, don't focus on, even focus on the pants size.
[00:26:50] Jennifer: Focus on feeling healthy, strong, being vibrant. You wanna be, you wanna feel smarter in a room, you want to [00:27:00] have good conversations. You wanna be informed. on the feeling. What don't you want to happen? I'm, I'm tired of feeling outta the loop. I feel stupid. I don't feel like I know what I'm talking about.
[00:27:13] Jennifer: Focus on that. Do the opposite. Then how can you not feel that way?
[00:27:17] Lori M: Hmm.
[00:27:18] Jennifer: So as far as goals go, they're so misunderstood. And I think if we could shift how we view them from that corporate. Very outcome based. The whole system of, if we shifted from that to feeling for anything, I think we would do. I think we would do really, really well.
[00:27:45] Jennifer: I think we
[00:27:46] Jennifer: would do more of the things we wanna do. I think we'd feel happier. I think we'd feel like some kind of progress and some kind of lightness in our life, and it's just a matter of shifting our perspective on [00:28:00] goals.
[00:28:01] Lori M: Yeah, and exploring the curiosity. So I really appreciate everything that you just said. And I was visualizing like an airplane, like when we're in that full-time position as a mom, we're on the runway and we're there for a really long time and then we're part-time, we're getting up a little bit in the air and then, we're on call.
[00:28:19] Lori M: We're just like taking off. And I feel like, that landing strip, it's like the prep work that we have to have because I did think that, I believed that there is one stage a motherhood. So when I went to more of the part-time mom, that was really hard for me to accept Then, the on-call mom when he left for college and that was like What do I do now? Am I gonna be texting? Am I gonna be checking? What do I do? I want him to be an adult. I want him to have his independence. I'm all for all of that. But still, it was very confusing to me. And so
[00:28:52] Lori M: to hear the different stages, that was very helpful. And that's what I was a visualizing, just kind of that landing strip, like you're
[00:28:58] Lori M: getting ready to take off and then [00:29:00] when you're soaring, you're, you're still there, but you know you're doing what you wanna do. And
[00:29:05] Lori M: I know that that's such a challenge for so many women. What do you feel like the mindset is at that stage? Like, let's talk about being the on-call mom. What is the mindset?
[00:29:17] Jennifer: Oh my goodness. I had a viral video. on TikTok. Surprise. I've actually had a couple of 'em, but this is the one that meant the most to me because it was a story I had shared about my very best friend. My dearest friend dying at 50. She most likely had a heart attack. 'cause I know a lot of people are curious about the details.
[00:29:44] Jennifer: I don't think people are morbid when they do that.
[00:29:47] Jennifer: It's, it's a survival
[00:29:48] Jennifer: instinct for us. We wanna know the details so we know what not to do or what can we do to prevent that. I personally suspect menopause had something to do with it because [00:30:00] she had been talking about other symptoms and stuff.
[00:30:03] Jennifer: Again, pay attention to menopause . Pay attention to your symptoms, don't ignore them. And I was absolutely rocked when I heard about her death my thought, isn't she, didn't she? Didn't get to live long enough and she's not gonna be in my life. Now. My thought was she didn't get to live her life. And I don't mean that like she was only 50 and she had all these things she wanted to do that she won't be able to do.
[00:30:37] Jennifer: And I think a lot of people assume that when I share this story, I get questions. And I mean, I knew her really well. I knew her. Her plan by 25, she wanted to be married by 28. She wanted to have two kids. That was her plan. She wanted to be comedic actress. [00:31:00] She was nowhere near that target that she had set when she was 22.
[00:31:07] Jennifer: And I know that that hurt her along her entire life. And it was such a wake up call to . , find what you want and go after it. And it doesn't matter what it is. It could be collecting kitties. That would be great. You wanna have the 19 cats because you love them and they make you happy. Have 19 cats, but don't want something and, and then sit back and either complain about it or be sad that it passed you by.
[00:31:47] Jennifer: So this was actually part of my transition into doing what I'm doing today. This was actually a huge catalyst for it because that was in 2020,
[00:31:57] Lori M: Wow.
[00:31:58] Jennifer: right around the time that I did my [00:32:00] big shift. That video with the story about her death and how it affected me and how I want to help more people, more moms.
[00:32:10] Jennifer: Live their lives, not hang out and settle. I got so many comments. There's over 5,000 comments on that video, and I analyzed them all.
[00:32:22] Lori M: Oh,
[00:32:23] Lori M: I like it.
[00:32:24] Lori M: I
[00:32:24] Lori M: first of
[00:32:24] Lori M: all, let me say, I'm so sorry that she is no longer here.
[00:32:28] Lori M: And were you on TikTok sharing the story story and just, talking about it, and then
[00:32:34] Lori M: you got, you were like shocked by the reaction
[00:32:38] Jennifer: I was, I was complete. I'm always shocked by reactions, by the way, good or bad. I'm always
[00:32:42] Jennifer: shocked. I'm like, wait, you care? Like you
[00:32:45] Lori M: That's good.
[00:32:45] Jennifer: to say something negative or you care enough to say something positive? I'm always shocked because sometimes it feels like we're just living in our own world, like
[00:32:54] Jennifer: it's our own little bubble.
[00:32:55] Jennifer: And it was so heartwarming to [00:33:00] me and it was so beautiful. Like out of 5,000 comments, I wanna say two or three were like inappropriate. Off, off the mark. Like that was it.
[00:33:11] Jennifer: I have another viral video about doing pull-ups and habits. is wild. It's like over 3 million views and it's not the same.
[00:33:22] Jennifer: Those comments are not the same. That is a different audience. I found my people in those comments. Going back to your question
[00:33:33] Jennifer: about what I ex what, what do people, what are they experiencing? What are these other moms experiencing? There is so much fear. There's so much fear from women who are in the full-time or part-time stage about their kids leaving.
[00:33:50] Jennifer: I can't tell you how many times I saw the word scared, terrified, and afraid pop up,
[00:33:58] Lori M: Wow.
[00:33:59] Jennifer: [00:34:00] and until I analyzed it, like I, I pulled every comment out and I put it into a doc and just kind of. Analyzed it, it blew my mind and it, it scared me , to be honest, that there's all these women out there feeling that way when I wish that they felt like they had this freedom, that freedom was in the future to choose what they wanted to do, to be more who, more of who they want to be or to be more of who they are.
[00:34:30] Jennifer: You get to rediscover, reinvent, or reconnect with yourself when you're in midlife, whether you have kids or not. This is your your time. I have other videos where I talk about this transition where the kids are going off to college and how are we handling empty nest, which one woman, and I love her to death.
[00:34:54] Jennifer: I don't know her. I don't know her name's Jen. She commented and she said, I [00:35:00] stopped calling it an empty nest, and now I call it an open nest. and it changed everything. And I was like, holy cow. That's huge. Empty nest is depressing. No wonder so many women are depressed when their kids go empty nest.
[00:35:17] Lori M: What do that is so cool, because that is the mindset that we have. It's gonna be empty. We're gonna
[00:35:24] Lori M: be feeling left out, we're
[00:35:25] Lori M: gonna be missing, we're gonna be sad, all of it.
[00:35:27] Lori M: But when it's open, you can shift that perspective to, okay, now what do I do? What do I do to fill my time? What do I do
[00:35:34] Lori M: with all this
[00:35:35] Lori M: love and energy that I was putting toward my kids? Uh, what can I do And shift that towards myself. I like it.
[00:35:41] Lori M: Go ahead.
[00:35:42] Jennifer: No, I just said that's exactly it. I was just sold. I was like, open nest. It is. And then other people started commenting. I mean, I'm telling you, crowdsourcing motherhood is, has always been
[00:35:54] Lori M: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:55] Jennifer: pretend title of the book that I won't write in my head. Crowdsourcing Mother Motherhood. That's [00:36:00] what it is.
[00:36:00] Jennifer: It's. , it is people commenting, oh, I call it my open door era. I'm like, yes, open door. That's great too.
[00:36:11] Lori M: This is fantastic. Jen, can, can I call you Jen?
[00:36:15] Lori M: Okay. Yeah. I feel I
[00:36:16] Jennifer: we, we have had conversations,
[00:36:18] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:36:18] Lori M: Like I can call you Jen.
[00:36:19] Lori M: I'd like to shorten people's names. This is fantastic and I love that because I'm going to find that video or maybe you can send me a link to that video so everybody can go and check it out
[00:36:29] Lori M: because
[00:36:30] Jennifer: TikTok.
[00:36:31] Lori M: it is pinned on TikTok.
[00:36:32] Lori M: Okay. Um,
[00:36:33] Jennifer: important to me.
[00:36:34] Lori M: it,
[00:36:35] Jennifer: that message.
[00:36:36] Lori M: it is and I think that we can all learn so much from going to comments and not in a nasty way.
[00:36:42] Lori M: Like if you're in there, just like reading comments to find the bad ones, please don't. That's just such
[00:36:46] Lori M: a waste of time. It's such, it's such
[00:36:48] Jennifer: I do it. I do it. I do it. I hate it, and I'm trying to stop
[00:36:52] Lori M: Yeah. It's, it's a waste of time. But go to this video because I feel like it's one where you are really going to learn, especially if you are [00:37:00] in that stage, no matter what stage of motherhood you're in. Because what Jen has just shared with us is it's all prepping you for that final stage that you are in forever. forever.
[00:37:11] Lori M: On call.
[00:37:13] Jennifer: yeah,
[00:37:13] Lori M: I'm there if you need me. Go live your life.
[00:37:15] Lori M: Be independent. I love ya.
[00:37:18] Jennifer: Yeah.
[00:37:19] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:37:19] Jennifer: love that analogy that you have with the, the tarmac and the airplane. It's brilliant.
[00:37:26] Lori M: Uh, I like to, I visualize a
[00:37:28] Lori M: lot of stuff, so I just like,
[00:37:30] Lori M: that's what I was thinking about when
[00:37:31] Lori M: you were talking. That's the truth. So let's talk about this openness and let's talk about that For motherhood stage going into 2024, I know that this is the time of year where we are celebrating the holidays, we're ending the year.
[00:37:46] Lori M: Whether we consider it good or bad or just indifferent, whatever it is, we're going in this 2024 and we're seeing all the messaging, new year, new you, all this outdated stuff, right? And we're looking at everything in our lives, like [00:38:00] time. Well, I'm gonna speak from personal experience. Time is ticking. You got to get on with it. I wanna be intentional with my time and when I hear the term goals, I think of the smart goals.
[00:38:13] Lori M: Right?
[00:38:14] Lori M: Smart. Um, what is it specific, measurable, attainable
[00:38:20] Jennifer: I actually have them, I have a whole goal setting course that I used to offer, but it wasn't selling because people don't like, it's, it sounds scary,
[00:38:29] Lori M: Yeah, so
[00:38:30] Lori M: we're gonna redefine it today,
[00:38:31] Lori M: but I think the rest
[00:38:32] Lori M: of it is, R as realistic. T is timely, something like that. If
[00:38:35] Lori M: you're gonna do a smart goal, it
[00:38:36] Lori M: needs to be specific. It
[00:38:38] Lori M: needs to have a time limit on it, right? And what you're teaching us today is how to be more flexible
[00:38:43] Lori M: with our goals and maybe
[00:38:45] Lori M: even say a different word for it.
[00:38:47] Lori M: I like
[00:38:47] Lori M: to say intentions, but
[00:38:48] Lori M: you know, whatever it is. Looking at this year ahead, how do we start small
[00:38:53] Jennifer: Yeah.
[00:38:54] Lori M: with creating some goals for ourselves?
[00:38:56] Jennifer: So the beautiful thing about New [00:39:00] Beginnings, like the new year is that it's this weird thing that we do. It's, I don't know if it's . actually wired in us, or if it's socialized into us. But new beginnings, we always have this boost of motivation to do something. And it's particularly strong at the beginning of a new year.
[00:39:19] Jennifer: You can tap into that motivation during like a week or a day. I often break my day up mentally into three parts so that I can have that little spike. Okay, well the morning didn't go well, but what's, what can we make the afternoon go better? But the new year is fantastic and I only believe it works if you have as flexible soft goal, almost like this dream
[00:39:46] Lori M: I like that
[00:39:47] Jennifer: do.
[00:39:47] Jennifer: I'd like to do this. And starting with that feeling as that's your, that's your your aspirational goal, that's what I call it. So you have this aspirational goal [00:40:00] and then you work and you get those . That smart system in play. Then you have the aspirational goal, then you have outcome goals. So those are tangible things you can do to get to that aspirational goal.
[00:40:16] Jennifer: And then you use habits and time management to work on the steps to get to your aspirational goal. So it sounds more complex than it is, but it's a dream a little bit. Find something that you wanna do. And I always, always, always recommend that people get really good at habits, and your habit could be your goal.
[00:40:40] Jennifer: So depending on how much time you have, if you are in that full-time stage of mom, and I wanna be really inclusive and mindful of the parents out there have children that have special needs, whether it's physical or mental, [00:41:00] emotional. might be in that full-time on stage forever. That might be It It is not the end of the road for you though,
[00:41:11] Lori M: Oh, thank you so much
[00:41:12] Lori M: for saying that. I appreciate you saying that.
[00:41:15] Jennifer: I have friends and clients with the future that they did not imagine.
[00:41:19] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:41:20] Jennifer: And I feel like that full-time mom stage, you have, you still have room to work with what you have and getting good at goal at, I'm sorry, at getting good at time management and getting good at your habits when your kids are young.
[00:41:36] Jennifer: Or like I said, if you, if you're in that full-time mom stage, getting good at time management, getting good at habits, when you're in that full-time, mom stage is critical to your happiness. And it's not complicated. Just like goals, habits, and time management sound. Rigid and they sound [00:42:00] scary. And who wants to do that?
[00:42:02] Jennifer: Choose a habit that is either sleep, nutrition, or moving your body.
[00:42:10] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:42:12] Jennifer: Do those first. And those could be your goals for the the year. And you can do that same process in every stage of, of motherhood. But if you already have those three things dialed in, then maybe your goal is communication. All of these things are going to help you.
[00:42:34] Jennifer: They're like foundational
[00:42:36] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:42:36] Jennifer: a better life. And everybody talks about that. I think that moms are so ignored when it comes to these subjects
[00:42:45] Jennifer: and I just want to start having these kind of conversations to help women in midlife take control of their lives, even partially. So looking at your habits and how you're spending your day, how you're spending your time, [00:43:00] I recommend people start with that as a goal. And the real goal there is to feel better.
[00:43:07] Jennifer: I wanna feel good and then expand on that. I wanna feel good in my clothes, I wanna feel good in my relationships. And then you can start to finding what that is. So if you are in the second stage, if you are in that on-call, or if you are in the part-time, mom stage, something to work on. If you already have your sleep and your nutrition and your movement is your communication and your connection with your spouse.
[00:43:42] Jennifer: Because of what I talked about before, divorce being quite high after the kids move out. What would it be like if you were closer to your, your partner in that openness era?
[00:43:59] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:43:59] Jennifer: [00:44:00] What would it feel like? It would feel pretty amazing. And then you work backwards and you find out, okay, what can I do about that now?
[00:44:07] Jennifer: What are some simple things that I can start doing? How am I gonna track that? How am I gonna find time for that? And then you show up and here's,
[00:44:17] Jennifer: the trick to making real change is something we've all heard about and we don't like.
[00:44:24] Jennifer: is consistency.
[00:44:25] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:44:26] Jennifer: But showing up every day to do the thing does not mean showing up at a hundred percent. You can show up at 10%. So I try to work out six days a week. I try to move seven days a week. Sometimes those workouts, air quotes, are me jumping on a small trampoline rebounder for 15 minutes while I watch tv.
[00:44:53] Lori M: That's a
[00:44:54] Lori M: workout.
[00:44:55] Jennifer: That's, that's, all I got today.
[00:44:57] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:44:57] Jennifer: And I get to have that, that [00:45:00] little check mark for the day. And then that boosts motivation that makes you feel good and it keeps you going forward. You've probably experienced wanting to do something. You start doing it, and then you don't show up for a day to do it, maybe two.
[00:45:17] Jennifer: the next thing you know it's 3, 4, 5, and the next thing you're like, okay, I don't, I don't wanna do that anymore. I don't need to do that. We beat ourselves up when we, I. Perceive a failure. So minimize that, that feeling of failure, which will minimize you actually giving up and just show up less. Just show up less.
[00:45:38] Jennifer: I think in atomic habits, and actually this has been quoted many places James Clear talks about Jerry Seinfeld
[00:45:45] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:45:46] Jennifer: a joke every single day
[00:45:47] Jennifer: and he calls it Don't break the
[00:45:49] Jennifer: chain. It could be a horrible joke, it could be hilarious. Don't break the chain.
[00:45:57] Lori M: Yeah, I've listened to him on a podcast. He was on Tim [00:46:00] Ferriss's podcast and I
[00:46:01] Lori M: listened to it one day at the gym, 'cause I love me some Jerry Seinfeld. And what he says is basically he gets up every morning, and I don't know if this is, was him talking about writing a book at the time or whatever, he was writing a, a show or whatever, but it was like he gave himself a certain amount of time every day.
[00:46:16] Lori M: And no matter what, he had to sit there, even if the thoughts weren't coming, even if the writing wasn't happening, he had to sit there. And like, I know for me that wouldn't work. I'm more creative in, in movement. And so if I'm out, if I have to do
[00:46:30] Lori M: something like that, I gotta move my body.
[00:46:31] Lori M: I gotta get up and then I start firing off, I'm just
[00:46:34] Lori M: very creative when I'm moving. Um, but something like that is just like 10 minutes, start the workout
[00:46:40] Lori M: for 10 minutes.
[00:46:41] Lori M: Right. Do something. And
[00:46:42] Lori M: we have to redefine when we think about exercise and
[00:46:46] Lori M: we go back, we, we envision Jane Fonda, which I love, Jane Fonda, or, all the, the
[00:46:51] Lori M: workouts that we grew up with.
[00:46:53] Lori M: Right. And what it meant to exercise
[00:46:55] Lori M: really. It's like going again with a feeling.
[00:46:58] Lori M: What is that gonna, I feel really [00:47:00] good when I get up and walk around,
[00:47:03] Lori M: my house for like five minutes in the
[00:47:05] Lori M: morning and stretch and talk to myself and do all that stuff. It's like, okay, I got the heart pumping. I'm, I'm
[00:47:10] Lori M: awake.
[00:47:10] Lori M: Like
[00:47:11] Jennifer: movement.
[00:47:12] Lori M: movement.
[00:47:12] Jennifer: how I started. I started redefining exercise as just
[00:47:16] Jennifer: movement
[00:47:16] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:47:18] Jennifer: just a fun side, side note, menopause, walking
[00:47:22] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:47:23] Jennifer: and heavy weights is so helpful for us. And so I, I'll walk as much as I can and I actually do that to fill the boredom that happens when our kits are pulling away from us.
[00:47:39] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:47:40] Jennifer: walk when before I would, I don't know, sit down and watch TV or scroll TikTok or I don't know, do whatever I do to occupy my time. I will walk now and I'll listen
[00:47:52] Jennifer: to podcasts.
[00:47:53] Lori M: Mm-Hmm. .Yeah, it's really good to fill that time and to, especially if you're feeling anxiety or you're feeling [00:48:00] tired, you're feeling sad. We recently lost our 13 and a half old little baby, our second child,
[00:48:06] Lori M: um, Beatrice. And um, I have only found the comfort because she, we would walk so much together and she's not here anymore.
[00:48:15] Lori M: And so I've just been taking long walks. The first week when she passed, it was just the last two weeks ago I was like, Forrest Gump, like, I don't care where I end up.
[00:48:24] Lori M: I'm gonna
[00:48:25] Lori M: do a little jogging, I'm gonna do a little walking. Like, I just have to be out walking. And it just helped me so much through that period and I can, not that it, comparing that to your kids leaving for college, but it very much was that feeling of emptiness that I fail and I still feel, but just getting out and walking just really helped me.
[00:48:42] Jennifer: I had a lot of people recommend getting a dog.
[00:48:45] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:48:45] Jennifer: your kids leave,
[00:48:46] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:48:47] Jennifer: there is a connection
[00:48:48] Lori M: There is a
[00:48:48] Lori M: connection.
[00:48:49] Jennifer: I feel like it is, it's how to spend your time. But it is that, that love, that unconditional love
[00:48:54] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:48:55] Jennifer: you. I know this is a complete side note, but I I, I've got two dogs and I, [00:49:00] they just, they do, they fill, they do fill that void
[00:49:03] Lori M: Yeah. They
[00:49:03] Lori M: really do. That's a good one. Well, let's wrap this up. I think that we talked about so many things. I can have you back on for sure, Jen, because this conversation was so great and I, I love the different stages of motherhood. Let's leave with a recap of, setting some goals for the new year.
[00:49:20] Lori M: Can you break that down one more time and just put it out there into your, your flow that you do so great.
[00:49:25] Lori M: And it's so easy,
[00:49:27] Jennifer: Okay. So when you think about the year, first of all, I wouldn't think about this is what I wanna do this year in 2024, this is what I want to do. Shift that to this is just what I wanna do, period. The end. Relax your goal, relax, have, have the goal. Be flexible. Show up as much as you can every day.
[00:49:52] Jennifer: Start with a feeling. Once you figure out what it is that you wanna feel, you figure out how you're gonna do that. And those are gonna be your outcome [00:50:00] goals that are measurable. I want to move more, how am I going to do that? And you have something very specific to do and you're, the time that you're doing it in is every single day.
[00:50:11] Jennifer: If you really wanna nail it and you really wanna hit it home, choose a place and a time that you're going to show up to do this habit, this goal, this task, and find the right one and move it around until it hits and you can do it. And then the last thing, I guess it's just that, just to show up and be gentle with yourself.
[00:50:35] Jennifer: And you can start with one and then add on and start with the simple ones first. Your goal is do not have to be huge. They do not have to be monumental, life changing. They can be, I want to sleep for eight hours a night. I
[00:50:51] Jennifer: wanna figure out menopause. I wanna connect with my kids more. It could be anything.
[00:50:56] Jennifer: And I think that's really, really [00:51:00] important that we have a different relationship with goals. It's just
[00:51:05] Lori M: I like it. .I like it. Thank you very much. Yeah. Check in with yourself I think, and find out, where do I wanna put more attention? Now is my time right now. Where do I need more attention? And when you were saying the sleep and the nutrition and the movement, yeah. I would think that you were saying one thing at a time, right?
[00:51:22] Lori M: Like if you have those
[00:51:23] Lori M: three things. Yeah. Like, 'cause those are big. And I
[00:51:26] Lori M: feel like every single year you work on something. 'cause I know a lot of women, they're working on being alcohol free. Like that's number one. That
[00:51:33] Lori M: is number one.
[00:51:34] Lori M: All of those things, support an alcohol free lifestyle, the sleep and the movement and the nutrition.
[00:51:40] Lori M: Find one of those things that will support you in living alcohol free. But for a while you're gonna be really focused on that, number one. So I think
[00:51:48] Lori M: that goes with the nutrition, the sleep, the, the exercising. Like don't layer
[00:51:52] Lori M: it all on because I think that's the stories that we have is like, oh my gosh, I have to have all these goals.
[00:51:58] Lori M: I have to do all of it,
[00:51:59] Lori M: and [00:52:00] we don't do
[00:52:00] Lori M: any of it.
[00:52:01] Jennifer: Yeah.
[00:52:02] Jennifer: Well, and that's what we were talking about. Motherhood is not one thing. You not have one experience, you have
[00:52:07] Jennifer: multiple. And it's just this, it is this constant evolution erosion, , they're almost
[00:52:14] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Jennifer: But yeah, I think just being really gentle with ourselves and choosing wisely
[00:52:23] Lori M: Yeah.
[00:52:24] Lori M: Choosing wisely. Yeah. Thank you so much. Let's talk about
[00:52:28] Lori M: your resources. What do you offer on your website? What do you want to direct our listener to today?
[00:52:33] Jennifer: So one thing I, my goal, like my big thing is I have a. Midlife course for moms that I run twice a year. And in January I'll be opening up registration for it and it's gonna launch in February and I'll do it again in the fall. It's everything we talked about. It's figuring out who you are, where you wanna be, how [00:53:00] you're going to get there.
[00:53:01] Jennifer: I see a lot of people out there with similar like, Hey, let's do a plan for your life. And I've taken 'em before and they're fine, but I think that we need so much more support than that. And so this walks you through everything and it talks a lot about the goals and the habits and helping people work with that.
[00:53:19] Jennifer: one-on-one, but figuring out where you're headed and where you wanna go is huge.
[00:53:25] Jennifer: And here's a, here's a little bonus tip for people. You really wanna figure out what your goals are for 2024. out what your life goal is. and then work backwards. And your life goal is an obituary. And it sounds super morbid, but if you could envision somebody writing an obituary and giving an obituary at your passing, what is it gonna say is probably not gonna say anything [00:54:00] about the 15 countries that you visited.
[00:54:03] Jennifer: It's probably gonna talk about you, your values, your beliefs, how you made people feel that it is. That is life changing, actually. Like literally life changing. Knowing how you want people to see you after you're gone is very freeing and
[00:54:24] Lori M: I've. I think it's very freeing and scary. And then also it's just a good reminder as maybe we're all there now,
[00:54:34] Jennifer: Oh
[00:54:34] Lori M: Acknowledging how far we've already come and the the good stuff in our lives that we
[00:54:39] Lori M: haven't, and maybe we're there. Maybe it's enough
[00:54:43] Jennifer: That is a lovely, I love that so much. That is a great, maybe it is enough.
[00:54:49] Lori M: Maybe it's enough.
[00:54:50] Jennifer: get to enjoy how far
[00:54:51] Lori M: Yeah. Yeah, I'm all for goals. I'm all
[00:54:55] Lori M: for like having that vision and working
[00:54:57] Lori M: backwards from it. But then
[00:54:58] Lori M: also I'm all for just [00:55:00] a reminding myself constantly. Like, Lori, come on.
[00:55:02] Jennifer: yeah,
[00:55:04] Lori M: You can strive, but you don't have to strive so hard. You can, you can be content. I think that's what it
[00:55:09] Jennifer: Oh my gosh. This this hustle culture.
[00:55:11] Jennifer: I,
[00:55:11] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:55:12] Jennifer: no thank you.
[00:55:13] Lori M: Mm-Hmm.
[00:55:14] Jennifer: No, thank you. I will just, I'm just gonna just figure out how to be happy where I am and still push for more. We can do both.
[00:55:23] Lori M: We could do both. Yeah. This is fantastic. John. Thank you so much for being
[00:55:27] Lori M: here. I will definitely have you back on.
[00:55:29] Lori M: I'm gonna link your resources in the episode's description for everyone and go and check out Jen. This is just a wonderful conversation. I learned so much, and I do leave here feeling just this different perspective on motherhood and really appreciating this message of these different stages because we have to remind ourselves that there's more than one way to look at things. And when you hear it from somebody else, a mom who's been through it, a woman who's been through it, then it's very reassuring for all of us. So thank you and thank you for sharing your [00:56:00] story about the drinking and not drinking anymore. I know that's gonna be helpful. It was just a real pleasure to have you here.
[00:56:07] Jennifer: I
[00:56:07] Jennifer: so appreciate it. This was an absolutely delight. Now my day is gonna be fantastic 'cause I'm on cloud nine now. Thank you.
[00:56:14] Lori M: Yay. That's how we like it.
[00:56:16]
Hey, there! I’m Lori, the host of the To 50 and Beyond podcast.
Where aging and living alcohol-free are celebrated.
To 50 and Beyond is about self-discovery, living for today, and designing an alcohol-free life that alcohol can’t compete with.
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