How to Get Past “Forever Sober” Thinking with Anne & Leigh Walkup

[00:00:00] Lori: Hey there, welcome to To 50 and Beyond a podcast dedicated to helping women find freedom from alcohol later in life. I'm Lori Massicot, The Midlife Sobriety coach and founder of Team Alcohol Free, an online self improvement community for women 35 and over who want to explore and create an alcohol free lifestyle and get the support they deserve.

[00:00:27] If you're coming back to the podcast, welcome back, my friend, I appreciate you so much. And if you're new to the podcast, come on in. This is a great episode for you to be coming in on. I think that you are going to love this episode and hey, thank you for listening. One of the biggest challenges that we face when we are standing at the crossroads of do I go alcohol free or do I continue drinking?

[00:00:48] Is the fear of going alcohol free forever. And there's so much that comes with it. There's the fear of, is this the right choice for me? There's the fear of, what if I say that I'm going to stop drinking and I go back to [00:01:00] drinking? What are other people going to think about me? There's the disappointment that we don't want to face if we do go back to drinking.

[00:01:07] And because of this, forever sober, I'm using my air quotes, forever sober thinking challenge that so many of us face, myself included. I invited my friends, the Super Twins, Ann and Leigh Walcott, back to the podcast to be co hosts with me today and to have this conversation because they are not only my go to's as far as just getting down to it, you know, like, tell me the truth, let's get down to the bottom of it.

[00:01:33] But also just for inspiration and motivation. And also, I have so much respect for both of them. They are hard workers. They are really a great gift to me and my life. And so they are back. Ann and Lee are the founders of Retro Rodeo Publishing and the creators of Front Porch Life Magazine. It is a digital magazine that includes just wonderful recipes and stories and a real down home feeling that brings you comfort and warmth and love.

[00:01:58] That is how I describe it. [00:02:00] There's so much that goes on behind the scenes that I know about in this magazine and I highly recommend just checking it out. I'm going to have everything linked down in the show notes. Today, we are coming together to talk about going all in, the mindset that comes with going all in on an alcohol free lifestyle today, not forever.

[00:02:18] We're talking about commitment. We're talking about building our legacies as we get older. We're talking about day ones and the reality of starting fresh. And the gals really share their experience with the choices they made to protect themselves in early sobriety. I know you're really going to appreciate this episode and I'm going to link all of their other episodes down below as well, because if you're like me, you're going to fall in love with the twins, Ann and Lee.

[00:02:42] So here we go. Hi, Ann and Lee. Welcome back to the podcast. You're coming in as co hosts. So pretend like this is your podcast as well. I feel like it kind of is. It's your fifth time back.

[00:02:58] Anne: Wow. I know. [00:03:00] Wow. That's so

[00:03:00] Leigh: exciting.

[00:03:01] Lori: This is the first episode in my conversations with friends and this is a little fun thing that I'm doing.

[00:03:08] I feel like I'm experimenting with a lot of new stuff in life and then also in my business and in the podcast. So this is an experiment. Having co hosts on. And it's something that I look forward to doing in the future as well. And today, well, let's talk about the last time you were on. We talked about forgiving ourselves for messing up and moving on.

[00:03:27] So you gals are always in my mind and in my heart, my go to is when it comes to mindset, when it comes to commitment. So we're going to talk about that today and when it comes to really no longer BSing ourselves, making excuses, right? That's where I go for you guys because you guys give me so much inspiration and we meet weekly.

[00:03:50] No, not weekly. We meet every, every other week on Monday mornings. And we have these powwows and I always leave those calls just feeling very energized. And [00:04:00] that's why I love being around you both because you give me so much positive energy and then sometimes you just like smack me into like, not, not intentionally, but I leave there going, Lori,

[00:04:10] Anne: stop.

[00:04:13] Stop. Yeah. Well, you're wonderful though at the grace and wellness of it, you know, like the grace and wellness of the whole sober community. You have that very well done.

[00:04:24] Leigh: Thank

[00:04:24] Lori: you. Thank you very much. Yeah. So last time we talked about the forgiveness and, and really forgiving ourselves for being human and today we're going to talk about the mindset around how to get past the forever sober thinking and forever sober thinking is just when we go into this, there is that fear.

[00:04:41] And I'm gonna ask you gals about this, but I had this fear of if I do this, if I say I'm going to do this. Yep. Then it has to be forever because I cannot go back.

[00:04:55] Do you know what I'm talking about? It's a tough one.

[00:04:57] Leigh: Yes. It's a tough one. Yeah. Very

[00:04:59] Lori: tough. [00:05:00] Forever sober thinking is if I stop drinking, it has to be forever. And at that point there is a slew of obstacles we face, those past stories. I hear it a lot from women. I can't commit. I don't follow through. So right off the bat, we're setting ourselves up for not following through, not being able to do it.

[00:05:20] Right. And there's so much fear. It's like. What is that going to look like for me when I stopped drinking? It was what am I going to do when Spencer gets married because I had associated drinking with weddings. What am I going to do at Christmas in four months? You know, I had all of those fears. So I know that there is a myth around there that there has to be this acceptance.

[00:05:43] That there has to be this perfect time that we start any kind of change in our life and that we have to have it all figured out before we

[00:05:52] Leigh: start. That's a falsehood. That doesn't exist. That's a falsehood. That

[00:05:56] Lori: doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. And I feel like that [00:06:00] just comes from us just, of course, being human and wanting to get it right.

[00:06:04] Not failing because failing is hard to face. What do you say about that? Wait, wow. Yeah. Let's do, let's, let's put a distinction to the voice. Lee, can you say hello? Hi. Anne, can you say hello?

[00:06:22] Leigh: No, hello. I'm

[00:06:25] Lori: gonna call you out by name, that's the best way to do it. I know I recorded one episode where I didn't do that at all, so it's like,

[00:06:32] Leigh: who's talking?

[00:06:34] Lori: Lee, how do you feel about the idea of going into this and being really scared of failing?

[00:06:40] Leigh: I mean, I think that this, that is a normal reaction to anything, you know, I mean, fear is what, what shows you that, you know, you're getting ready to do something big. That's normal in any situation, whether it's quitting drinking or competing in a road race or, you know, I mean, fear, anxiety, anything, but [00:07:00] you know, you have to just get past it and get on the other side of it.

[00:07:03] You know, when I, I know when I quit drinking and I decided to quit drinking. I mean, we had dabbled in the whole, you know, we're just going to do 30 days, you know, I did that twice and went back to drinking. So it didn't work. Yep. I did it for 30 days. I could do it for 30 days, but then I went right back to it there.

[00:07:22] Like you said, there's always going to be events like you're talking about. If your son was to get married, you know, how would you handle that? You're already talking that up in your mind. When, and I quit. We had you know, we've talked about this before in on previous podcasts We had you know Some of our college friends that were coming in and they were coming in right at like the 60 day And I remember thinking oh my gosh, we're going to a concert i'm going to spend all day with these people I mean, it's going to be day drinking all day.

[00:07:50] It's going to be how how you know, but I didn't even think you just got to get to those 60 days and then you figure that out, you know, and this all or [00:08:00] nothing, you're going to have to give into it at some point, you know, if you want to get to the other side, you have to, you absolutely have to. I mean, a lot of people don't want to hear that, but that's just the way that it is.

[00:08:14] If you want to live a sober life, you're going to have to go all in. There is no

[00:08:18] Lori: waffling. There's no waffling. That's another point that I have you guys here because it's like, I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm going to tell you. That's what you guys are so good at. That's what I love so much. Well, I had introduced in the podcast series that I did over the summer.

[00:08:33] You guys know about the essentials where I talked about plan A and plan A is going all in on an alcohol free lifestyle. Because if anybody were to ask me, what did you do? That would be the first thing I did. I went all in. I took it off the table. There was really no waffling, even though I'd I was going back and forth with myself, of course, in that first year for sure, questioning it.

[00:08:56] I was pretty much focused [00:09:00] on plan A because I was very worried about going back to drinking and that, that I would never actually go all in if I went back. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I'm curious because I know that you guys took breaks together. Yeah. You stopped drinking together. And what is the date that you stopped drinking?

[00:09:22] 5 7 8.

[00:09:23] Anne: June 7th, 2016,

[00:09:26] Lori: June 7th, 2016. And when you were taking breaks, I wanna go back to that just real quickly. When you were doing the 30 day breaks, were you saying, okay, this is only for 30 days and there was no plan on like day 31 ,

[00:09:40] Leigh: right? Correct. No. Yeah. I was always, you know, drink for 30 days and get hammered on day 31,

[00:09:46] Lori: not drink for 30 days.

[00:09:47] Yeah. And get hammered on day, not drink for 30

[00:09:49] Leigh: days. Yeah. Get drunk on 31. Yeah.

[00:09:51] Anne: But I think that when you finally make the decision and say, I'm going to quit drinking, you know, you don't have to say, I'm going to quit [00:10:00] drinking forever. I'm going to quit drinking until I'm 90, I'm going to quit drinking.

[00:10:03] But when you just say the words, I'm going to quit drinking, there becomes a freedom with that. Like you've battled the, the back and forth and the back and forth for so long that when you finally say, I'm done, I'm going to quit. I'm finished. Then you, then you put in the discipline that comes with that.

[00:10:20] It's like you create the discipline that says I'm going to stick with this decision and you erase all the back and forth in your mind, because the battle of every day trying to decide, I'm going to drink two, I'm going to drink three. Nope. I'm going to do four. No, I'm only going to do one that takes up so much space.

[00:10:37] And when you just finally go all in and say, I'm going to quit drinking, I'm done. It's like a freedom. It's a little create a new freedom of your mind mentally in your life Is it going to be hard? Absolutely. It's going to be difficult But when you say i'm done and you quit You are releasing that constant

[00:10:57] Leigh: battle every day of how many beers am I going to [00:11:00] have?

[00:11:00] Am I going to start

[00:11:00] Anne: at three o'clock? Am I going to go out tonight? Am I not going to go out tonight?

[00:11:04] Leigh: If I do go out, I'm going to try to drink

[00:11:05] Anne: two. No, I'm only going to drink three. You know, you get rid of all of it. You just say, I'm

[00:11:10] Leigh: done. I'm not doing it. Yeah. I mean, fatigue is the real thing. And I mean, that takes us so much space in your head and no decision is a decision.

[00:11:21] Yes, absolutely.

[00:11:24] Lori: Ooh, I like that. No decision is a

[00:11:26] Anne: decision. It's a choice. It's a choice. You're making a decision regardless of if you think you are or not.

[00:11:32] Lori: Yeah. Like I know that we all get this and anybody listening to this, who is there and has been there and has said on repeat, I am going to stop drinking.

[00:11:42] Today's the day. Today's day one, right? Cause there's so much hope in day one. And then there's so much, um, beating ourselves down when we're back to day one again. Right. And we could talk a little bit about that. But when you are there and you're thinking, I've done this [00:12:00] before, I've said that before and then I've gone back, what is the difference?

[00:12:04] What was that switch for y'all? Do you feel like it took you a while with those breaks? That you had and would that be like something that you did to kind of like prepare you for the actual event? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:18] Leigh: I mean for me the biggest switch like what stuck in on June 7th was You know, I got once I started seeing myself get through Situations that I never thought I would be able to get through without grieving And so, you know, you create that momentum, like, you know, when I, like we spoke about like before, when we got through that weekend with our college friends coming up and not drinking and the, the, the day after the concert, you know, and I were up at 530 at Walmart, like holding hands, skipping through the eyeball, like, oh my God, we did it,

[00:12:53] Anne: you know, I mean, you know,

[00:12:54] Leigh: we're wide awake, we feel great, you know, they feel like shit and wake up at noon and can't, you [00:13:00] know, walk straight, they're so hungover.

[00:13:03] Once you start building on those moments and you see yourself, you feel yourself becoming the person you wanted to be. I always wanted to be a morning person. I always wanted to be the person getting up, running four or five miles. I wanted to feel good. I wanted to be drinking the smoothies. I wanted to be eating healthy, you know, and all those kind of things.

[00:13:22] Once you gain that momentum, You know, are you gonna go back to your previous life because

[00:13:31] Anne: we did the 30 day when we did the 30 days and then we went back, you kept pulling on that 30 days, like, remember when we weren't drinking how good we felt for those 30

[00:13:42] Leigh: days and it was a year we

[00:13:43] Anne: we quit for 30 day.

[00:13:45] We went back to drinking that June we drank for a whole year and then we

[00:13:49] Leigh: quit permanent. But we kept pulling on that 30

[00:13:52] Anne: days. Remember how good we felt? Remember when we weren't hung over it? Remember, and it's

[00:13:56] Leigh: like, you just have to build up. The days and [00:14:00] remember

[00:14:00] Anne: saying how good that felt. I mean, I don't think you're ever going to be able to make the switch until you get some time behind you of not

[00:14:06] Leigh: drinking and feeling how that feels, because you've been a drinker and you've drank for a long time.

[00:14:12] It's going to take 30 days

[00:14:13] Anne: to start to feel like, Oh my gosh, this is what normal people feel like when they're not hung over every Saturday morning. You know, it takes a while. It takes a bit, but if you'll give yourself the grace to put in the time and feel that. You will begin to pull on that tongue and that feeling and say, okay, I want to feel like that.

[00:14:32] I don't want to feel like I want to feel how good it if you're supposed to feel good We're designed to feel good. So I think that that's part of it. You have to put in some time I mean if you're not ready if you can't say

[00:14:43] Leigh: i'm all in say i'm gonna do two weeks and document how

[00:14:46] Anne: good you feel and I mean You're going to feel better, but it's easier just to say I'm done, but it's so hard if you don't ever experience how to feel good, give it time.

[00:14:56] I mean, learn how to feel good. Yeah, I have [00:15:00] so

[00:15:00] Lori: many things to say about that, honestly, but I want to go back to like you guys skipping through Walmart because the vision of that was incredible, but honestly, like, I was thinking about this the other day. I have never once woke up from a night where it was really challenging not to drink or a concert or an event with other People that I used to drink with I had never Ever ever woke up the next morning regretting the fact that I didn't drink Exactly.

[00:15:25] Leigh: Yeah, exactly. I never I never when I missed out. I

[00:15:28] Anne: never thought that you know Oh my gosh, I didn't have as much fun as they did. Nope. No,

[00:15:32] Leigh: but I mean the immense moment that immense feeling of being so proud of yourself and I mean We, we lack that so much when we're drinking. The immense feeling you feel when you drink is shape of what you did or didn't do or what you said or what you didn't say, you know, when you can build those moments of immense being proud, like, oh my gosh, what a stepping stone.

[00:15:57] What a stepping stone.

[00:15:58] Anne: Yes. Yes. [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Lori: I don't think that a lot of people I will say in life give ourselves that opportunity to build ourselves up. But I think that. It's so essential as we get older to learn how to do that. That is such a great tool for so many areas of our lives to allow ourselves to be human, to make mistakes like we talked about last time, to forgive ourselves, to start where we are really messy and not sure, unsure, fearful, you know, all of those things going into it and looking at everything we do as an experiment.

[00:16:30] Like, let's see what happens because when I talk about, you know, plan A, like plan A is. Um, going from I don't drink today. We could say today. Let's just say, yeah, cause you don't have to add forever on it unless you want to. I don't think that's a good idea, but I don't drink versus I'm trying not to drink or I don't drink.

[00:16:50] And then in parentheses, unless life happens, unless something happens. And then that's the, that's the reason why I would go back to drinking because life is happening and life is happening, whether we're drinking or [00:17:00] not. It's always upsetting.

[00:17:01] Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If always. There's always a reason to drink, and I mean, you're my, you're looking for one reason.

[00:17:10] Yeah. Yeah. You're looking for one. But the thing is, for me, and I and I spoke about this last week, where, you know, we've been around people like, oh, I wish I had your willpower. I get, you know, I, you know, you talk to people that, well. I just allow myself to have three or, you know, I, I, I moderate to only four on the weekends and, you know, blah, blah.

[00:17:31] The problem with that is you're giving your willpower away every time you take that drink. You can say you're only going to have two, but you just gave your power to that two beers. And then by the time you finish drinking that, it has the power. Yours is gone. It's affected every aspect of your brain, your thought process, your decision making.

[00:17:52] Everybody has willpower. It's the point of not giving it away to something else. Keep, keep your power. And so, [00:18:00] you know, that's the, that to me, that's, that's the biggest thing, you know, you moderating and all those types of things, when you go all in, you keep your power when you moderate, you do not keep your full power.

[00:18:14] But if you go all in, your power is yours and you will be shocked at what

[00:18:18] Lori: you could accomplish. Yeah. You start looking at things as what can I control? What can't I control? And there's so many things that we can control in life and so many things that we can't control. But man, you just let yourself not take that first sip because it's that scene.

[00:18:34] First you take the drink, then the drink takes the drink, then the drink takes you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There are so many people out there who can drink. And what I've talked about, you know, that normal, like normal drinking, I don't think it exists. I think people have like a level that they can drink to and other people can take it or leave it.

[00:18:52] Like if we want to call them normal drinkers, whatever, I mean, there's so much labeling around this. Like let's take normal out of it, but people can either take it or leave [00:19:00] it. Maybe there's somebody out there who drinks once a year. Yeah. Maybe a little bit of champs. But then there's those that we all know each other and know ourselves.

[00:19:10] And the reason why we're probably all here together right now is because we know that when we moderate, it takes so much effort. And it is so hard to do when we know in our heart of hearts that we don't want to do it.

[00:19:24] Leigh: That's the best way to say it for you. And how many

[00:19:28] Anne: times did you see yourself drinking when you didn't want to drink?

[00:19:30] I mean, we all have done it so many times just to be a part of the gathering or part of the event or that's who you were known for. You were the drinker. So why aren't you drinking? Even if you didn't feel like drinking. You do it just to be a part of the group and your, your, your body and mind is telling you what are you doing?

[00:19:51] Lori: So, you know, you know how Oprah at the back of her magazines always had this. I know for sure. I don't know It's like her last [00:20:00] page this I know for sure going into sobriety What did you know for sure about your drinking?

[00:20:09] Anne: Oh, it was limiting everything in my life that I knew for sure Yeah, I mean it was put a cap on every Ability, accomplishment, achievement, I mean, it was like, it was a cap.

[00:20:22] It was holding me back a hundred percent. And I know that for sure. I knew it. People are honest with

[00:20:27] Leigh: themselves.

[00:20:28] Lori: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was Anne. Yeah. Doing a really poor job at calling me out. That was Anne Lee. I knew

[00:20:36] Leigh: that it was turning me into a person that I didn't want to be. Yeah.

[00:20:39] Anne: I knew that for sure, that it

[00:20:41] Leigh: was affecting, you know, my ability to be the person I knew I was meant to be.

[00:20:48] Yes.

[00:20:49] Lori: Yes. And I think for sure, I knew that I didn't want to moderate. I knew. Yeah. So I always talked to myself in the beginning, like just that [00:21:00] first step, like it was just that first step. I, I really can't take that first step. And today I can't take that first step. No. One hundred.

[00:21:07] Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. Like I just, I know it's there.

[00:21:09] I just can't. I, and I've gotten to a point where, I mean, and I know that this is a huge fear with people too is. You know, how am I going to be around it again? You know, if I don't drink, you know, how am I gonna you know, that's a big fear for people How am I going to go to the wedding? You know, how am I going to do these things?

[00:21:26] How am I going to be around it and you know, give yourself grace I didn't do anything like that for a very long time Nothing and those are the decisions you need to make for yourself when you say i'm going all in You know, you've got to put a protective barrier around yourself you can't you can't go all in and decide not to change anything about your routine or Your actions, you know, that's, that won't work for most people.

[00:21:51] That's,

[00:21:52] Anne: yeah, that's what,

[00:21:54] Lori: that's what plan a is all about. Changing small things that you can do to change because you keep doing the same thing. You're going to [00:22:00] keep believing in the same things and so much of who we are, our identity, especially as drinkers. And like you had said, you know, people know you as drinker, you know, you know yourself as a drinker when you're out and about and you're going places, it's really hard to face.

[00:22:15] It's awkward. I, I felt very much like I was missing a part of me and I did whatever it takes. That was my mantra to protect myself. So it's looking at like what you were just saying, Lee, like, you know, not going and doing these things, you know, those are the choices that you have to make. We can look at that as, well, gosh, I'm missing out or that's a huge sacrifice for me.

[00:22:37] But honestly, is it? Is

[00:22:41] Leigh: it? Is it? Look at what you're

[00:22:42] Anne: gaining. You can't see it at the time, but you'll look back and see it. Yeah. Take the distance. Take the distance. It's okay to be distant from these things. I mean, I had no desire to go sit at a bar. I wouldn't do that. You know, I wouldn't put myself in that situation.

[00:22:57] You know, and I mean, that's [00:23:00] okay. Yeah. You've been to that bar a hundred times. You can, you don't have to go there to know what's going on, but you've seen it. You don't need to go

[00:23:08] Leigh: back. Nobody trains up still going on. Yeah,

[00:23:13] Lori: same men, same people, same bartender, same conversations, same day after where you wake up and go, what the hell did I say?

[00:23:22] What did I do? Yeah. Yeah. Same, same, same, same. Like now, and that's why I always talk about it and I started talking about it very early on was just like, this is the best time to be alcohol free is as we get older and we are really creating this. You know, multiple more chapters in our story in our book, this, I think it's not a fix all definitely sobriety and not drinking, but I've always said it made me realize that I didn't have to fix my life.

[00:23:48] I didn't have to fix my feelings. I didn't have to fix who I was. I'm embracing who I am as I get older. And I think that that is one of the best gifts that we can give ourselves. And alcohol just wants to take it all away. [00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Leigh: Oh, yeah. One

[00:24:00] Anne: hundred. You're exactly right. I mean, you were talking recently this week and I want you to share it with Lori about people that are drinkers for life.

[00:24:11] Leigh: Yeah. And I had a moment last week where we were talking about we had two people that we've known in our lifetime that had passed away and they were around the same age and one of them was, you know, a partier up until the end and you know, a very, you know, I mean, a drinker like we were drinkers, you know.

[00:24:32] And had at their celebration of life, you know, people got up and spoke and said nice things, but every single story was what we were drunk when we were drunk. So we were drinking and I mean, when we left there, it was one of those, like, kind of punch in the guts. Like, you know, every single thing that was stated about this person involved alcohol.

[00:24:56] And

[00:24:56] Anne: I said to Anne, I'm like,

[00:24:58] Leigh: I'm just so thankful that we quit [00:25:00] because. I could see that being what someone would say about me or Ann, you know, later in life had we not chosen to take a new path. And then just recently, another person that was of the same age passed away and they had to take out like a page in the newspaper for their obituary and the things that this person accomplished in their life.

[00:25:25] And I read it and the majority of what he accomplished started when he was in his late 40s. And it was huge, the things that he had his hands in, the things that he was able to do in the, you know, in the last part, you know, the second half chapter or whatever of his life out and he was not a drinker. And I just thought, you know, when, when you're thinking about what you want your life to look like, I mean, do you want it to be remembered as well when we were drunk?[00:26:00]

[00:26:01] Yeah, and I'm just so thankful that I and I stopped that train. I mean we stopped it We burned it down, you know, and it was just a very eye opening one of those, you know sloppy in the faces like You know, none of us are getting any younger, you know, none of us are getting out of this life, you know, how do you want it to be remembered?

[00:26:23] Yes. I damn sure don't want mine to be my friends standing up, you know, and telling 30 stories about when we were shit faced down the road at the bar. Like, I don't want that to be my legacy at all. No, no, that absolutely not. It's something to always consider, you know, uh, that's why I like, uh, recommend going all

[00:26:41] Lori: in, going all in.

[00:26:43] Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I, I love that. I, I think there's just such a, a flip in the perspective when we look at this. Do I want to. Be forever, not remember, how can I say this? Do I want to not remember my memories forever? Do I want to continue to [00:27:00] wake up and feel disappointed in myself forever?

[00:27:02] Or do I want to be free from all of this forever? Like if you want to use any kind of forever thinking, like flip it around, like what are some other ways that we can flip that around?

[00:27:13] Leigh: Oh my gosh, that's yes, you're exactly right.

[00:27:15] Anne: Yes. And I think that, you know, I think we all have a vision of the type of person that we would like to be.

[00:27:20] I mean, People are not sitting around with that vision thinking, Oh, I want to be numb on that bar stool every day. I mean, most people have a higher vision of themselves than that. They'll, you know, take alcohol out of it and then just get to work because you will be shocked at how quickly you can get the momentum going the other direction if you just

[00:27:38] Leigh: make that change.

[00:27:40] And I'm, I was listening to a podcast last week with Rodney Carrington, you know, the, the comedian. And, and when he got divorced, he went down a rabbit hole of drinking. And he said he gained 70 pounds. He was drinking way too much and he finally quit. He said, I quit drinking. I cut it all out of my life.

[00:27:58] And he said, and I thought this was [00:28:00] so brilliant. He said, I always thought the best trait that a human being has is the ability to make a decision. We can make one good decision, and that will compound into a great decision, and then an even better decision, or you can make one bad decision, and that will compound into a worse decision, and an even, you know, worse than that.

[00:28:19] So, you know, you're one decision away. You know from a totally different life one decision and I mean when you think of it like that then yes You should think of it as in forever terms. I'm one decision away for forever changing my life. Yes. I love that

[00:28:38] Lori: I love that so much It's such a trip because when you think about and we go back to you know What we can control and what we can't control we can control Our choices can control what we do right now, like the decision to go all in.

[00:28:50] Like, I, I know that there are people out there are going to listen to this episode and they are going to decide for themselves because we can always choose who we want to be. And that's where it starts. Yeah, [00:29:00] it has to be a choice. And I love how you talked about legacy. And thank you so much for sharing that because I was just talking about this on an interview that's upcoming with my friend Sondra Primo about Legacy and I was watching Jamie Lee on my 10 year soberversary that morning.

[00:29:15] She has a video and she talks about sobriety. Like, you know, Jamie Lee Curtis, she gets in there and it's like, number one, like you have to make it number one. You have to make it a priority. And she was talking about the legacy that that is, her sobriety is part of that legacy. And that is such an important part.

[00:29:32] Of what she will leave and going to my, um, brother in law celebration of life last year, he stopped drinking at a younger age. He was a mentor to so many people. And there were so many people there talking about Just his legacy and what he had left behind and the work that he had done to, um, get and stay sober.

[00:29:52] And I just remember thinking that day, I'm like, man, that's going to be part of my story as well. And it's something that I will never, [00:30:00] ever discount or take for granted. And it's something that I think is, is such a. important part of who I am and why I celebrate myself so much because it is hard to do.

[00:30:12] It's hard to go all in. It's hard to commit to yourself. And when you do those things, you're going to be skipping down the aisle at the grocery store, so proud of yourself. That's how we build ourselves up. That's how we build more confidence in ourselves. And it's never too late to get that. That boost that we all need, and that's where we can change other areas of our lives.

[00:30:35] 100% Absolutely.

[00:30:36] Anne: Yes. Lori, I want you to tell... When did you feel like you were fully, and I know when you quit, you said, you know, I quit, but what point in your sobriety did you get to where you're like, I'm, I'm feeling better about this? Was there a mark? Were you trying to get to 90 days, 60 days? Were you counting days or were you,

[00:30:57] Lori: how did you go forward?[00:31:00]

[00:31:00] I think at 90 days, I wasn't really counting days because I did just say, I have to quit. That, that was it. Like, there was no going back. And I remember thinking the day after I quit drinking was like, what's next? What do I do now? You know? And I put a little app on my Kindle, it was like, hide it away somewhere.

[00:31:18] I can't even tell you what the name of the app was, but just was like a sobriety counter. Cause at that time I, I didn't know of apps on your phone. I don't even know if they existed back then, you know, in 2013, everything's so different now. So it's such a great time to do this, but I didn't count, but at 90 days, I remember Bill saying to me and Bill's my husband, yeah, you can never go back.

[00:31:36] And that's when it like clicked more of the different views of me drinking and not drinking. I don't think that there wasn't an acceptance there. I can guarantee there wasn't, because I was still writing in my journal, you know, I guess I can never drink in eight months. I guess this is the right choice.

[00:31:56] Well, months, you know, it's like that type of thing.

[00:31:59] Anne: Um, [00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Lori: but yeah, there was more of the clarity around the different views because I've always said this as well. You cannot see what it's doing to your life until you take a significant amount of time off from drinking. Yeah. I think the counting days thing is, is tough and that's where a lot of people go back to those day ones and want to beat themselves up.

[00:32:20] Can you share, Lee, your thoughts on going back and starting?

[00:32:28] Leigh: Well, I mean, either, you know, we did the 30 days twice, right, I think, you know, and then I think, you know, and I mean, to me, it was a con like, you know, going back is just, it's not anything that, you know, anybody wants to do because, you know, you're defeated, don't you feel like you're defeated? You're, you know, that's, that's the point.

[00:32:52] Like, I just think that. Like you just said, Lori, you know, you got to get some time underneath your belt, you know, to see the positives that are happening [00:33:00] in your life and what I have come to realize with, with going back and forth or going all in is we're all going to make mistakes in life, always, you know, that's just a human nature, but I want to be in control of those mistakes.

[00:33:15] I want to be able to wake up in the morning and be like, yep, yep, made a mistake yesterday, but I made a damn it, you know, it wasn't the five blunt, you know, beers that I drank that made it. Because there's a big difference and, you know, being in control of your choices and your decisions and how you approach life, other than, you know, being half ass in control because you're, you're not all there because of drinking.

[00:33:39] And that is just the bottom line. I mean, I don't care what anybody says. When you start a sip of alcohol, it changes the way that you view things, you see things, the way you handle things, your decision making. And I don't ever want to go back to that, like ever. So, you know, going back and forth between day one, 30 days, day [00:34:00] one, 30 days, it's exhausting, you know, and so I just, for me, once I knew I got to like a certain level, like I said, those 60 days was a turning point.

[00:34:08] And then, you know, again, and I went through where we, we always rent a cabin and go out of town to do business stuff and business planning. We had always made that a drinking weekend. Always. It was like four months in, we were going to that. And even in the truck with Fong there, like in my mind, I'm waffling, should we stop and get alcohol?

[00:34:29] And I mean, that's four months. You know, and then so see we made it through that weekend and then you're like, oh my god Oh my god, like it was amazing. We had the best weekend. I was present, you know, I wasn't hung over Those milestones you just got to get through those milestones because once you figure out that you can do it Your life just changes drastically, you know about what confidence level you're at of the things that you can Like you said do in other aspects of your life.

[00:34:56] Not just that are related to drink, [00:35:00]

[00:35:00] Lori: right? A hundred percent with you on all of that and talk to somebody who is very fearful of failing and they do go back to day one, but they have like, let's say

[00:35:10] Anne: a hundred days. Well, then they're right at one on one, in my opinion, starting over. Yeah, you've already got what you've got more experience behind you than you did at day one, a hundred days ago.

[00:35:24] So you're really. You just had a hiccup and you just get right back on it, you know, and you go forward and you tell yourself You're not going to do it again, you know, you learn from that lesson and you move forward But you have to bring that experience forward with you those hundred days were not a waste by any mean And I think that's just like you said, I mean we all make mistakes, you know You could have had a wedding and said screw it and have fun for the night, you know And your mental game just got off for that one time But you just wake up the next morning and start with the plan you had on day 99, you know, so that that's That's going to happen.

[00:35:57] There's hiccups, people have hiccups and don't beat yourself [00:36:00] up. Just be grateful for what you've learned and get back to it, you know, and try not to do that again, you know, make those decisions and go forward.

[00:36:08] Lori: I think it's a good mindset to have around something like that and everything in life, like don't let it go past a day.

[00:36:15] Like if you've had one day, like don't go down that rabbit hole the next day, do whatever it takes, you know, reach out, talk to somebody, get support, write down all of your reasons why you don't want to drink anymore on a piece of paper, like get back on track because That's where we can easily catch that wave, that cow fur, into the alcohol ocean, right?

[00:36:36] And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, reel yourself back in. Don't do, don't skip two days. Like don't skip two days. Isn't that like a gym thing? Like don't skip two days. Yep. Cause it's so much harder to lift those weights after you've been off for, you know, your workout game. I know this for sure. Did you guys count days?

[00:36:57] Leigh: Yeah. I still have a tracker. I never look at it, but I [00:37:00] still have a tracker on my account. How many days is it? Can you find it? 2623

[00:37:10] days. Yes, sir. Awesome, that's so awesome. I remember when I got to 60, I really got to 90. Like, you know, to me, I mean, I need a sense of accomplishments because that's, and I think that you just have to know yourself and know what is going to motivate you and what's going to slide you back. Like if, if counting those things are not good for you, don't do it.

[00:37:31] It's just like, if getting on the scale is going to screw with you, if you're trying, don't do it. Like know these things and, and don't, don't get around those trigger points. Just,

[00:37:41] Lori: you know, do what works. It's such an important reminder for us all, do what works for you, even if you hear, you know, you should count, you should do this.

[00:37:51] Like I give all kinds of suggestions on this podcast, I'm about to give you some more, but it's like, if it's not working for you, you don't have to do it. Like I've heard my entire [00:38:00] life, you should weigh yourself. I never weigh myself anymore because it does mess with me. And I just decided very recently, like if I feel good in my clothes, if I feel good in my energy, if I'm in a better mood because of what I'm eating and my workouts, can that make me in a better mood?

[00:38:17] I'll get weighed at the doctor when I go, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we got to find these things. And I think that's also something that's just a gift. And later in life, we just stopped doing things like other people. Like, especially when you're looking at drinking, like I drink to fit in or everybody else drinks, it's everywhere you look, right.

[00:38:35] No, do what works for you and your heart and soul because I know that that was what was calling me the most, you know, like, please stop drowning yourself out. Please do something different. Please don't let yourself go another 30 years with this bullshit because it's just going to drain you completely and take away your entire memory bank.

[00:38:55] Yes. From life.

[00:38:56] Leigh: Oh, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. What you just [00:39:00] said was the voice in my head. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:39:04] Lori: We all have that voice. It's when we choose to listen to it. Yup. That we can make a change. And what I want to say just in like recapping this episode, you know, it's very apparent that we're all on the same page about forever thinking.

[00:39:17] You know, it doesn't have to be forever. Cause like, look at us now, you know, in, in long term sobriety, this is still not forever, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we all have that choice. Nobody is granted this like picture of the future. Like you're going to go this. I have a vision of my future and how I want it to be, but I never know.

[00:39:37] Right. Right. We all fail. That was another thing that I got a little takeaway. We all fail in life and man, if we choose to learn from those, those setbacks, let's not even call them failures. Let's call them setbacks, like that's what it is. You know, what are we learning about ourselves? You know, that's such an important question.

[00:39:56] Like what do I know about myself? What did you learn [00:40:00] and what, no, and today, what have you learned about yourself that maybe you would have missed out on if you hadn't stopped drinking?

[00:40:11] That I actually

[00:40:12] Anne: am not an extrovert. Yep. I am an introvert in a lot of ways. I mean, I always viewed myself as someone that was like the life of the party and wanted to be out there and having fun. And now that I do not drink, I really have a lot of interest in that. I enjoy real conversations with depth.

[00:40:32] I do not enjoy surface bullshit conversation and that's okay. There's a time when I felt like I had to just be a part of them. And now I don't feel that way. I enjoy being around people that want to talk about real things and. You know, the next day I probably don't want to talk to anybody after a day of talking all day.

[00:40:52] So, and that's, and I'm okay with that, you know, and I think that that was a change where I was like, you're, and I've had people point out, you know, you don't do the things you used to [00:41:00] do. You don't go out, you're not as social, and like, because I'm not who I was 7 years ago, and that's okay. I'm happy with who I am now.

[00:41:10] I'd rather stay at home or read a book than sit at the bar and listen to the same conversation I heard 900 times.

[00:41:18] Leigh: I

[00:41:18] Lori: love all of that. Lee, what about you? What have you learned

[00:41:21] Leigh: about yourself? I mean, I think the biggest, one of the biggest things I've learned is that I'm not a procrastinator. I thought for about 25 years that I was, and I used, you know, alcohol to not do any of the, you know, I mean, it was so easy to get home from work and just crack open a beer and it's like, Oh, night's over.

[00:41:41] Like can't drive, can't wash, shouldn't mow the grass, I've been drinking, you know, Bye. You know, it was all like, yeah, I used it as a escape to, to not. But then when I quit drinking, like, oh my gosh, there really is 24 hours in it.[00:42:00]

[00:42:01] I have so much time to do stuff. Um, you know, that, that in stuff that I actually enjoy and I, you know, I've filled my days now with things that I enjoy and alcohol takes that away. You know, I learned that, you know, sitting around drinking and getting drunk with people takes away a lot of life. It takes away a lot of life.

[00:42:20] And I've learned now that, you know, I love life and love building my days, doing the things that I want to do.

[00:42:27] Anne: And alcohol doesn't have a place about it. What about you, Lori? What did you learn?

[00:42:33] Lori: I would say ditto to both of those things. Definitely I learned that I was never a party girl, that I had deemed myself and labeled myself at 14, that I hung on to until I was 45.

[00:42:44] And then, you know, I can laugh about it now, but it wasn't funny. Definitely that. I'm, I'm not somebody who enjoys parties. I'm not somebody who enjoys big crowds. Definitely everything that you guys said, I feel like I learned a lot about my capabilities for sure. And the [00:43:00] fact that I can make choices based off of what I want, and that has definitely come with getting sober, but definitely has come with age.

[00:43:07] And that's why, you know, sober and aging, it's just like, boom, like. Yeah. That's why it matters. That's why it matters so much at this stage of life because it is such a gift. It's complete freedom. Like if you don't like me, I get it. Chances are I may not like you, right? Like I know my people now and that's why we get along so well.

[00:43:27] And we have been together, you know, for such a long time, because honestly, that's what I want. I want those smaller conversations. And I always told myself, like, you have to have more friends. You have to be more popular. People need to know you. And, you know, it's like, yeah, I'm not for everybody and everybody is not for me.

[00:43:42] That was one of those things that I had that aha moment. Like. That's refreshing. Yeah, that is. I don't have to try to

[00:43:48] Anne: be for anybody. I love it. Yeah. I love it. And I have no fear of missing out anymore. I used to have it all the time when I was drinking. Now it's like, I'm happy to be left out. You don't have to ask.

[00:43:59] I'm not. [00:44:00] I mean, I, there's things I want to do, but I have no fear of missing out on, on things. You know, I mean, you, you create the life that you, it has events in it that you enjoy. You are not missing out on those experiences.

[00:44:14] Lori: Yep. I agree. I don't really have FOMO anymore about anything. Doesn't have to do with anything like drinking or anything.

[00:44:21] I did recently have FOMO that I didn't get Taylor Swift tickets. I will say that there's a lot of FOMO going around there because I really wanted to get them and I would have went by myself had it not been in LA cause I'm scared to go to

[00:44:32] Anne: LA. Nobody

[00:44:35] Lori: wanted to go with me. I had some FOMO around that, but next time.

[00:44:42] Also, I just want to mention that you were able to change your mind with this. So if you go into this and this is not for you, there cannot be that judgment because here I am, I've got a sober podcast. I'm 10 years sober. I'm talking to everybody about being alcohol free. But also I [00:45:00] also have a part of me that says, do you like you got to do you because the working up against that.

[00:45:06] Is making you feel lousy. And what's the point if you're not ready for it? I think there is a timing to this. Definitely. I don't think it has to be a perfect time, but can you speak to anybody out there who is struggling with this and who is just at this point of, you know, I haven't accepted this for myself yet.

[00:45:24] I'm not even willing to, to start. Can you talk to anybody out there who is feeling bad about knowing that maybe they should stop drinking, but they're not there and, and letting them know that it's okay.

[00:45:37] Leigh: It's absolutely okay. I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, we have to make ourselves happy before we can move forward with any other aspect of our life.

[00:45:46] And, you know, if you're not ready to address maybe how you drink, how much you drink, what you drink, whatever it is, that's fine. You can, you can address adding in healthier habits. You can change [00:46:00] other habits in your life. Start there. Nobody says you need to, you know, like we just spoke about do. You, you know, there's different ways to doing everything.

[00:46:10] I mean, you know, maybe you're not ready to stop drinking this, that glass of wine every single night. That's fine. Drink a green juice in the morning. Sir, there. I like it. You don't have to do everything this far, right? You say, okay, I'm not going to give up my glass of wine, but I'm going to walk three miles every day.

[00:46:30] And then I'll, and then, and then we'll dress the wine later. Add in healthy stuff, change the way of perspective, the way you look at things. Start there. And

[00:46:39] Lori: what do you think about Shane? Yeah, go ahead. But

[00:46:42] Leigh: I think that you can also, if you're curious,

[00:46:45] Anne: if you've questioned it, if you've wondered in your mind, Is drinking something I need to give up if there's something talking to you in the background, but you're just not ready to quit There are things that you can do to become more knowledgeable on the subject I mean [00:47:00] read books about it, you know read books I've read I mean so many books before I quit drinking about people

[00:47:06] Leigh: to quit drinking And you

[00:47:07] Anne: might read one and you're like, oh my god, i'm not near as fine as my own blind count every weekend you know, that's fine, but just

[00:47:14] Leigh: Gather knowledge about it.

[00:47:15] It's okay to be curious

[00:47:17] Anne: about something and not be ready to go all in. I think that's where you start learning the tools that when you are ready and you want to make a decision, you'll have more tools in your toolbox to make that decision the correct way. I mean, there. And the correct way is how you want to do it.

[00:47:34] I mean, nobody is saying you have to do it this way or that way, but it's okay to be curious about the subject and learn along the way in your

[00:47:42] Lori: journey. Yeah. It's smart. And I will say definitely, I did, I think that everybody who's listening to this, who's on the fence. And has been on the fence or is just that in that fear, I think you, everybody deserves to go all in on this, to go all in on themselves, not sobriety, but to really commit to [00:48:00] themselves and to experiment, but also be able to just let yourself allow yourself to be human and to say, I can change my mind.

[00:48:10] We got to give ourselves a break. We got to loosen the reins a little bit. Cause it's, it's too much this forever. Like I got to write it in stone. Everybody around me is going to know this, like tell who you want to tell and keep it to yourself to yourself is such a nice thing to do. I mean, I didn't

[00:48:24] Leigh: even say I wasn't even honest about it the first

[00:48:26] Anne: six months.

[00:48:26] I mean, if someone asked me if I was drinking, I'm like, I'm allergic to beer. It's

[00:48:29] Leigh: great. And I've just over time became a large beer. I mean. I'm like, I can, I can handle

[00:48:34] Anne: this the way I want to handle it. I don't owe anybody an explanation for why I'm deciding not to drink. It's really no one's business. I mean, it's really the only drug that people will question, you know, I mean, it's the only drug people will question you to death about, but that's okay.

[00:48:51] It's not anybody's business.

[00:48:53] Leigh: I

[00:48:53] Lori: mean, keep it to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it to yourself. I love that. Talk about what is [00:49:00] happening in your business. I know you're going into a really important season in your business. Not that they all aren't, but you know, we're, we're coming into the holidays. So talk about what is happening.

[00:49:11] Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:49:13] Anne: Well, we're in the middle of getting our fall issue done and hopefully front porch life magazine digital, it will be coming out. You know, the first or second week of September and our summer issue will be going away when the following comes out. So if you, you know, If you want a subscription, you should get one, but the only way to get it, um, but we're working on that.

[00:49:34] And then the website, of course, all the fall goodies, you know, all pumpkin, everything that we're working on for the fall season on Southern Lady Cooks. So that's right now our main focus. Yeah.

[00:49:48] Lori: Awesome. And then you'll have the winter.

[00:49:52] Leigh: Well, our winter issue will be out in November, first of December, right around the holidays then.

[00:49:59] And then it [00:50:00] starts all over again. Can you believe it?

[00:50:04] Lori: It's just like winding down to the end of the year. I just thank you guys for being here again, you know how much I love you. And of course I'm going to have your information linked down below in the episodes description. And I think that for anybody out there listening, we're, we're all sending you out with just a lot of love, a lot of support, and a lot of hope and encouragement that if you want this, you can have it and you got to make that choice for yourself.

[00:50:29] And gosh, we're going to cheer you on and cheering you on. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Lori. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening today. Go and check out Front Porch Life Magazine. I have linked it in this episode's description. And if you are ready to take a break from alcohol, join my community, Team Alcohol Free.

[00:50:47] Click the link in this episode's description below and go and check it out. Next week, I will see you with another Conversations with Friends episode with my co host next week, Kasey Davidson of the Hello Someday podcast. She is back for the third [00:51:00] time, and we're talking about your first year sober, the challenges, what we went through, the tools that we used, and how it affected our relationships.

[00:51:09] Take care of yourself this week, my friend. Peace.