The Signs of Gray Area Drinking with Kari Schwear
episode #279
Have you ever found yourself questioning your relationship with alcohol?
It's not like your drinking is “that bad,” but it's far from being something you can manage and still feel your best as you get older.
You've noticed some downsides to your drinking, but quitting altogether feels like a big leap.
The fear of judgment around being a non-drinker adds another layer to the mix. If this sounds familiar, you're not alone. You might be a Gray Area drinker, joining a rising community of individuals navigating this middle ground. Let's explore together.
In episode 279, I have invited Kari Schwear, a Gray Area Coach and Founder of Gray Tonic, here to explore the topic of gray area drinking and the signs.
There is a wide spectrum of drinkers that is in between someone who is a take-it-or-leave-it social drinker and someone who is severely abusing alcohol. And my estimation is about 50 percent of the population that consumes alcohol may be in this gray area. -Kari Schwear
In this episode, you’ll hear:
The origins of Gray Area drinking
Kari's personal journey from quitting drinking and starting with AA
The fear of societal pressure surrounding non-drinking and its hindrance to going alcohol-free
The stages of change and understanding the process of transitioning away from drinking
Signs of Gray Area Drinking: Identifying behaviors that may signal a need for change.
Episode Takeaway:
Kari shares her perspective, kindness, and wisdom to create a supportive space for anyone exploring their relationship with alcohol.
Kari empowers you to use sobriety as your superpower with practical steps to get started.
I’m truly grateful for her valuable perspective and approach to removing alcohol from your life.
Resources Mentioned:
On Air with Ella and Andrea Owen
Find Kari here:
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[00:00:00] Lori: Hey there, welcome to To 50 and Beyond. I am Lori Massicott, the midlife sobriety coach and founder of Team Alcohol Free, an online community for women 35 and over who are either curious about going alcohol free or already living that lifestyle. I am so happy that you are here. If you're new here, I started drinking at 14.
[00:00:18] Lori: Long story short, I quit at 45. I am 10 plus years. Sober and 250 and beyond exists because I made the choice to stop drinking. And I'm just so happy that you're here. If you're returning back to the podcast, welcome back, my friend. I'm giving y'all a big virtual hug. I'm proud to share my guest with you today.
[00:00:36] Lori: Kari Schwear. She is here to talk about the signs. You may be a gray area drinker. Carrie shares her story of what led her to quit drinking, talks about the different practical steps that you can take on day one when you make that choice to go all in on an alcohol free lifestyle. She talks about the different colors of gray.
[00:00:54] Lori: There's so many great topics in this episode. Carrie is an executive lifestyle gray area coach is [00:01:00] specializing in the many gray areas we have in our lives. Carrie founded gray tonic and questioned the drink in 2018 after her own experience of living in the gray. And that led her to serving others. She is such a bright light.
[00:01:13] Lori: I got such a kick out of talking to Carrie and I know that you are going to really appreciate this episode. If you feel like you are in the middle there, you're not really sure. Should I quit drinking? Should I keep drinking? What kind of drinker am I? Carrie has your back today. Get ready to enjoy this episode.
[00:01:29] Lori: Here's Carrie.
[00:01:30] Kari: Hi Carrie. Hey Laurie. Thanks for
[00:01:32] Lori: having me on. Thank you for being here. We're going to talk about exploring gray area drinking. I want to start off with how do you explain gray area drinking to someone who's never heard of it before?
[00:01:43] Kari: I explain it that it is this wide spectrum of drinkers that are in between someone who is a take it or leave it social drinker and someone who is severely abusing alcohol.
[00:01:53] Kari: And my estimation is about 50 percent of the population that consumes alcohol may be in this gray [00:02:00] area. So it's a big number. It's a big number of people. It is a big number.
[00:02:04] Lori: Talk about how gray area drinking originated the
[00:02:08] Kari: term. Yes, there is a research paper that was done in 2011, an abstract paper by two doctors and they were starting to see that this idea of either you're in the alcoholic realm or you're a normal quote, unquote, to air quote.
[00:02:24] Kari: Normal drinker that that just wasn't the case that there was this gray area that existed, but the term itself really came to light when Jolene Park did a TEDx talk. I believe in 2016 or 17 is when that TEDx came out. And in 2018 is when I first heard the term. I quit drinking in 2016, went to aa, did the traditional route of recovery, so to speak.
[00:02:51] Kari: But the whole time I was in aa, I was like, you know what? I'm not an alcoholic. I don't think I belong here. I think the program's an amazing program. I'll always [00:03:00] talk very favorably about AA wasn't a good fit for me. So when I left the program two years later, I'm walking through my neighborhood, you know, trying to figure out like just contemplating life basically.
[00:03:12] Kari: And I'm listening to this podcast. And it was on air with Ella and her guest at the time was Andrea Owen, and Andrea shared her story about being a gray area drinker. And I was like, wait, what? And all of a sudden I stopped in the middle of the street with my dog before work. And I was like, Oh my goodness, this is what I was.
[00:03:35] Kari: I knew I was an alcoholic. I was a gray area drinker. So I came home. I did all this research on gray area drinking. That's when I found Jolene's TEDx. I couldn't find much more. I didn't find that abstract paper for quite a, quite a long time after that. But I realized that my goodness, if I can get other people to raise their hand, While they're in this gray area, maybe just maybe [00:04:00] I can help prevent them from going too far down the path of addiction and getting to a place where it's no longer a choice because being in a gray area is absolutely a choice.
[00:04:11] Kari: Hallelujah. Amen. That's a good news, right? Mm hmm.
[00:04:15] Lori: I love that. I love. All of that and honestly on air with Ella that podcast I used to listen to it all the time and I know I listened to that one with Andrea Owen and that was probably back when it first aired when you listen to it. Yes, let's let's back up a little bit.
[00:04:32] Lori: What led you to believe
[00:04:34] Kari: that you needed to go to AA? Well, I didn't have any options. I didn't know anything out there like me or you existed. I was like, I was taught through societal messaging that you're either an alcoholic if you're, if you're drinking too much or you're not. It's this black and white, very binary option.
[00:04:54] Kari: And I was like, gosh, well, I know I'm drinking too much. I'm not sure when I am. I realized [00:05:00] that my drinking is starting to become a problem because let's face it, gray area drinking, you are. Absolutely. In a problematic situation. If you are gray area drinking, if there are situations popping up for you in your personal or health life or your professional life, when it becomes a problem, it's a problem.
[00:05:18] Kari: Right? And so for me, it was. There was a couple things. I, my relationship with my husband was starting to get a little off kilter. My weight was gaining. I was feeling less confident about myself. I was getting older. What is my purpose here on, on the planet earth? You know, all those big questions that we ask ourselves.
[00:05:37] Kari: And so drinking was a way for me to escape and numb myself from all that. And, and that's what really led me to, well, I don't know what to do. And the only thing that I know exists Is Alcoholics Anonymous, so I guess I should go to AA, and that's what I do.
[00:05:53] Lori: Wow, I totally get that. I quit in 2013 and there was no one around talking about it.
[00:05:59] Lori: There was [00:06:00] nothing and I just thought that is my only option, but I wasn't ready to do that. So I did it on my own and I'm not recommending that to anyone. But when you're faced with you either keep drinking or you go to AA, it's very
[00:06:14] Kari: scary. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, there's so much stigma. Let's talk about this here for a minute.
[00:06:20] Kari: That is ginormous. A lot of people, but they stay in this gray area because multiple reasons. One, because they don't want to admit, admit to themselves or anyone else for that matter that they might have a problem. That's number one. The second biggest thing that I see, especially with the clients that I've worked with is there's this massive fear of not having a social life.
[00:06:41] Kari: What are they going to do? If they don't drink, like, how are they going to go out? How are they going to go out for dinner? How are they going to live a life without a glass of wine in their hand or some alcoholic drink? Goodness, right? Like, how is, how is that even going to happen? And for me, that was my biggest holding point too.
[00:06:57] Kari: I remember I quit in August of 16, but [00:07:00] in July of 16, I had this little diary that I carried around with me, a little notepad. And I remember writing in the back of it reasons to keep drinking. And reasons to stop drinking and my reasons to keep drinking, there was about five or six on there and they were all the same.
[00:07:18] Kari: Lori, just different wording. So the 1st, I think the 1st 1 I wrote down was I can keep my friends. And then the 2nd 1 I wrote down was. Because I like the taste. Let's get real. Nobody really likes the taste. You acquire the taste over time. The third one was I can still have fun. I mean, they were all the same.
[00:07:38] Kari: They were all based on the social anxiety of not having a life or not having friends and just being out in the wilderness somewhere. And then the reasons to stop drinking. Number one was it will save my life. And when I wrote that, I started crying. I was in my office. I [00:08:00] ran a medical practice at the time and I was in my office with a tear coming down my cheek going, holy cow, Carrie, you got to get something together here.
[00:08:09] Kari: And it still wasn't enough. I was in that preparation phase at that point. This was the end of July. I had my own enough on July 4th. I had an experience that I drank all day, came home, totally trashed. My 23 year old son at the time said, wow, mom, you're drunk. And I, and I spewed back all kinds of profanity to him.
[00:08:32] Kari: Woke up the next day, got myself to work or just another work day. Right. I was fine by 10 o'clock in the morning. And by one I'm like, yeah, I can't wait to drink till when I get home tonight. And at the dinner table, he said, how'd you do at work today, mom? And I said, fine, why? He goes, cause you were trash last night.
[00:08:49] Kari: And he goes, do you know what you said to me? And I said, no, not really. And he goes, let me remind you. And my husband kicked his [00:09:00] foot under the table and said, do not tell your mother. He goes, oh, I'm telling her. And he went on to tell me exactly what I said to him the night before. And Lori, I sat there at that dinner table and I bawled like a baby.
[00:09:12] Kari: And I looked at him and I said, I promise you, I will never talk to you like that again. I am so sorry. And that was my wake up call. I had already been contemplating my relationship with alcohol for about a year or two, maybe two years. I had a little seed planted. Someone saying, Carrie, I think you're liking your wine too much, girl.
[00:09:32] Kari: I'm worried about you. There's going to be a point in your time where you might not have a choice anymore. That was a girlfriend of mine in 2014. She planted the seed. It cultivated. By 2016, it was starting to sprout. And that conversation with my kid is the, it was a linchpin still not enough for make me quit yet.
[00:09:52] Kari: Laurie, I ended up spending another six weeks in that contemplation preparation phase of, okay, well now what do I do? And that's when [00:10:00] I decided to know, finally I had, I, that was it. Um, August 14th was the last night I drank in 2016 while watching father Martin, who is this Catholic priest talking about AA.
[00:10:12] Kari: And he had already passed at that point, but he was this big advocate for AA. And I was like, well, I guess I got to go to AA. I might as well learn about it. So I'm on YouTube drinking a whole bottle of wine, watching the summer Olympics on a Sunday night and decided that, yep, that would be my last night.
[00:10:31] Kari: I drank and I berated myself for 10 minutes in the mirror before I went to bed, calling myself every name in the book, being so pathetic and you're ugly and you piece of crap. And. All the profanity that goes with it, I woke up Monday morning and on August 15th and I said, God, I'm done. Please forgive me.
[00:10:51] Kari: I'm done. And that was it. Never looked back. Wow. Congratulations.
[00:10:56] Lori: Thank you. I know there's somebody listening who can relate to your [00:11:00] story. I can relate to your story. Even the timeline. The two years of knowing that somebody planted that seed with me and that's what kicked it off and then having that kind of that last really just below rock bottom moment in July and I quit August 11th of 2013 like that timeline.
[00:11:19] Lori: I totally get that and so thank you for sharing that. Because I think that we, we feel like we've got to pressure ourselves and do this right now. And it doesn't work for most of us. That takes a long time to get to that point. Of where you are just certain that maybe you're not even certain and that's okay, too.
[00:11:37] Lori: It's just, this is what I'm going to do moving
[00:11:39] Kari: forward. Yes. You know what it is? I think there is this, um, this, the inner, the inner critic that we have is telling our, telling our, our unconscious mind is saying to us over and over again, it's fine. You don't really have a problem. You, it's okay. Everyone else is drinking.
[00:11:58] Kari: And that fear, like I said, the fear of the [00:12:00] social part is what really holds people back for a lot for a long time. And I know it did for me. And then on top of that, it's like, what are you supposed to do? Like, how are you supposed to numb your feelings? I mean, how are you supposed to erase how I'm feeling?
[00:12:13] Kari: This is what I know. Alcohol absolutely works. Of course it works. It works to escape all that. But then when I know and hopefully someone who's listening right now, that one person. It actually doesn't work when you start to see it showing up in your life and it's an everyday occurrence. And then if you're waking up in the morning going, man, I should've drank so much again last night, dang it, I really got to get it together.
[00:12:39] Kari: You are having those internal conversations inside of your head. It is in those moments that you have to go, okay. You got to get real. And you know what? It's okay if it's going to take you a year or two, sometimes that's what it takes. You're only going to make progress when you are absolutely ready to make that progress.
[00:12:57] Kari: And you are a hundred percent committed [00:13:00] to your self. And when you're willing to have the identity shift that is needed to make that change. And that's where we don't spend enough time talking about is the identity on who you believe you are right now and who you wish to be and who you know you can be.
[00:13:16] Kari: But you're too scared, you're too scared and you're too afraid to even let yourself dream or think that you could be that person. Right? It's so
[00:13:25] Lori: good. It's so awkward, too, when you stop drinking. Who am I if I'm not a drinker anymore? I mean, I drank for 30 years. Who will I be to everyone else?
[00:13:34] Kari: Right?
[00:13:35] Kari: Exactly. How will they see me
[00:13:37] Lori: now? And it is there. So there's so much fear that we have going into it. Will I still have my friends? Will people respect my choice or will they talk me into going back to drinking? Um, I had all of those. Um, will I be left out? Will I be fun? Will I have fun? All of those things that we have.
[00:13:58] Lori: And honestly, I [00:14:00] mean,
[00:14:00] Kari: it's, it's normal. It is normal. And you know what? I will say this as well. Do I have the same exact friends that I did when I was drinking? Yes. I'm still friends with them. Do I spend as much time with them? No, I do not. And, and let me tell you why. It's not that I don't love them because I do, but I realized that for a lot of my friends that I was very close with at the time, the main substance that kept us together, the glue that held the relationship together.
[00:14:33] Kari: Was the fact that we were drinking and when we were drinking, our inhibitions were lowered and we were able to just let loose and all those fun things. I get it right. I do miss. Having those really fun. Let loose moments. I'm not going to lie. I do miss those times, but I will tell you what I've gained.
[00:14:51] Kari: And I think you can probably relate to this too. Having massive clarity every single morning, having my [00:15:00] health back in a massive way. If anything, my health has been the most incredible transformation. I have people speaking of Ella. I mentioned on air with Ella, yeah. Ella was actually my very first business coach that helped me get my business started.
[00:15:17] Kari: And so I've known her for, you know, over five years. She just messaged me the other day. She said, girl, what are you doing? What is your secret? You look better now than you've ever looked. What is your secret? And I said, Ella, it's not drinking. It is knowing who I am. It's having the confidence that I have now.
[00:15:38] Kari: It's me working out and taking care of myself. It's me getting rid of all the toxicity out of my life, including the people. that I felt were causing me a lot of this, right? I worked on my marriage. I worked on my health. I worked on my, well, now I have my own business, but all those things in my spirituality, that was another big piece.
[00:15:57] Kari: My faith came back in a big way. So there was a [00:16:00] lot of pieces that got me to this place and that transpires and how I show up on the outside as well as the inside. But this is an inside job. That translates to the outside view, right? So there's so much to be said on what is to gain. And the last thing I'll say about that is one of the very first people I mentioned about my drinking too, was a substance abuse.
[00:16:26] Kari: counselor that was a patient of a medical practice that I was managing. And I asked her, I said, Hey, so and so I have a friend, the friend who I believe is drinking too much. She's really liking her wine. I mean, she's drinking wine like every night, like at least two glasses, sometimes even more. How do I know if that's becoming a problem for her?
[00:16:49] Kari: And I'll never forget it. She leaned so close to me. She knew it was me. She knew I was the friend. And she said, Carrie, you tell your friend [00:17:00] that if she thinks it's a problem, it's probably a problem. And you also tell her what she thinks she's going to miss out on is this much. And for those that are listening, I got my hands up in front of me, kind of close to a close proximity.
[00:17:15] Kari: She goes, but what you don't, or what she doesn't see is everything that she's gaining. With her arms spread wide out. And I was like, I didn't even understand what that meant at the time. Not until I quit drinking and then I had some time under my belt because I didn't know what I know now when I first quit drinking, I said, I went to AA.
[00:17:37] Kari: I waffled around like a, like a flopping fish for two years until I poured into myself. I worked with a coach that coach really helped me understand the reasons why I was feeling the way I was. He helped prepare me for where I am today. It's because of him that I'm here and I credit him for a lot of that as well.
[00:17:56] Kari: But I had to look inward. I had to get the tools [00:18:00] that I've developed in order for me to get to this place. And so for you, for me, for others like us, that's why we do what we do is we want to show others what we've gone through, never giving you the fast track program. So you don't have to waffle around like a flopping fish, like I did.
[00:18:15] Kari: And probably like you did for a while to figure all this out, right? We have the answers. We have the tool, the strategies, all the things, the mindset piece that goes with it. We're help. We're able to help people along faster, but man, Just flopped around for two years. I was I was like the a term dry drunk I was like I wasn't drinking but I still what didn't have my act together.
[00:18:37] Kari: Yeah,
[00:18:38] Lori: I can relate to that as well It took me about two years to really just not accept. Well, no, I accepted it sooner The the term sobriety was not in my vocabulary when I first quit drinking because that was so scary I would write AF in my journal and then about two years in is when I really started to accept more and more [00:19:00] of.
[00:19:01] Lori: That sober woman, let's say that the identity, I am a sober woman and I became so proud of it. And that's when I really started talking about it more. But the first two years, yes, floppity flop. I'm just going to do the best that I can. I had a mantra, whatever it takes to not drink. And that's what I'm going to do.
[00:19:18] Lori: And I feel like just and thank you for everything that you've shared. We got to remind ourselves. We can't figure out our drinking while we're drinking. It's nearly impossible and so many of us really try to do it and I did it for so long. I tried to figure it out while I was drinking. So you've got to give yourself
[00:19:36] Kari: that space from it.
[00:19:38] Kari: Yeah. Well, the fact that someone's listening right now and that's tuning in tells me that they're preparing. They're in that preparation stage. Let me figure this out. Let me gather the information. There are six stages of change that we go through when we have a behavioral change. So there is the pre contemplation stage.
[00:19:56] Kari: We have contemplation. Then we move into preparation. Maybe [00:20:00] that's where you're at right now. Then we have the action stage where we're like, okay, it's time to take action. We're actually going to make the call. We're going to sign up for the course. We're going to reach out to someone. We're going to tell a friend, we're going to do something, right?
[00:20:13] Kari: We move into action and we then move into maintenance. And there are some that move into that sixth stage, which is a relapse. And if that happens, you just go back to action. So there, there's this natural progression when we do it, when we have this massive change in our life. But it all begins. And again, we don't talk enough about this.
[00:20:32] Kari: This is not something that's been out there for a while. Which is about having that identity shift, stepping into what does it look like for me to be a sober person, right? And I too never really used the word sobriety or sober or recovery. I didn't identify with those words. And it's funny that you said that, Laurie, because just recently, my friend, Heather Lowe of Ditch the Drink, she's also a sober coach.
[00:20:56] Kari: Heather went to a recovery summit recently [00:21:00] and she posted on LinkedIn. The definition of recovery. And I wish I had it in front of me, but when I read it, I was like, oh, whoa, oh my gosh, I'll have to find it. If I can find it, I'll share it with you and you can put it in the show notes too. But it was so good because I realized that, oh yeah, I'm absolutely.
[00:21:20] Kari: In what, you know, I didn't want to admit some sort of recovery because I think we're all in some sort of recovery, right? We don't have to have an addiction or a problem with something to feel like we need recovery from something. So I was always afraid of those words. I'm like, Oh, I'm running from that.
[00:21:37] Kari: And I think that's part of the problem is the stigma of AA, the stigma of addiction, the stigma of recovery. And recently I did a summit, Lori, and one of my guests on that summit was Rob Hanley. He's the editor in chief of Recovery Today magazine, which is a worldwide publication. And Rob and I talked about that.
[00:21:57] Kari: Like, why is it so hard for people to [00:22:00] get past this stigma? And it's because we don't want to tarnish our reputation. We don't want to feel as though we're less than, but I got to tell you, I coach seven figure business owners. That's who I typically work with. And most of those clients, they find that once they give up alcohol and they see that it is actually a detriment to their business, to their life, to the career, to the marriages, to everything in the world.
[00:22:26] Kari: That it becomes a superpower. So now I always say sobriety is a superpower. It puts you on a different playing field. And when you're drinking, you can't even imagine what that means. Until you get to that place of, ah, oh my gosh, that girl, Carrie, I listened to on the Lori's podcast. It's a superpower. It truly is.
[00:22:52] Kari: And I wonder somebody else I do
[00:22:54] Lori: too. And thank you for sharing that. I'm going back and thinking about your list that you started off with all of the [00:23:00] reasons to keep drinking. I mean, honestly, honestly, well, it's not pathetic, but it's so real and. It's it. It's sad. I think it's very sad because that's how we grew up with that message.
[00:23:13] Lori: And we look at that list and it means so much to us at the time. It does. It means so much to us at the time. But if you can allow yourself. To look to what Carrie was saying, all that you're going to gain. And if you don't believe it, challenge yourself and get out there and do the damn thing, because that is how we do it.
[00:23:32] Lori: That is how we're able to see it. And I know it's hard. Yes. My goodness.
[00:23:36] Kari: And when I said pathetic, I don't mean someone feeling that way right now, that that's a feeling what I meant was when I read that later, even, even like later that night, I was like, girl, your reasons are all the same. And it's because you're fearful.
[00:23:54] Kari: I saw it so clearly. You are fearful that you won't have a social life. Aren't you more than just [00:24:00] an alcoholic drink or a glass of wine? Like, aren't you more than that? Aren't you worth more than that? And the answer was yes, of course I am. But because my confidence was already dinged and I was already feeling like I was beaten up and I beat myself up every single day, every time I drank too much.
[00:24:17] Kari: I'm like, damn it. Why did I do it again last night? Like, why can't I just have enough motivation or willpower? I didn't realize that that's not my fault. It wasn't my fault that our brain creates these neural pathways. That every time we drink, it expands and it strengthens. We actually have these myelin sheets inside of our brain with our neural pathways that strengthen every time we drink.
[00:24:40] Kari: It's like, yes, yes, yes, yes. More of that please. And we train ourselves to actually it become a part of us. So when we believe that we, we can't be without it because we're not going to have a social life, we're going to be deemed as a human being. That is a pathetic way to look at our life. And that's [00:25:00] not who we're meant to be.
[00:25:01] Kari: That's not who God called you to be or whoever your creator is. We're called to be more than that. And that's what I had to tap into. And I was, I knew this on a cognitive level. It was getting to my unconscious level that I had to convince, and that's the hardest thing to do. And then sadly, our unconscious mind is what's ruling our world.
[00:25:23] Kari: It really is.
[00:25:24] Lori: Talk about the signs. I know that you have mentioned when we realized this is becoming a problem for us. That is definitely being in that place where you start to really get that seed and it's growing. Like, this is becoming a problem no matter what I do, no matter how many rules I place on myself, how much I drink or don't drink.
[00:25:42] Lori: It's in my thoughts, alcohol, and it's becoming a problem every time I, what are some other signs that somebody out there can say, okay, this feels like I may be in that gray zone.
[00:25:53] Kari: Yes. So when you are thinking about drinking a lot throughout the day, or it doesn't even have to be a lot. If [00:26:00] it's on your mind on a daily basis, that's something to be concerned about.
[00:26:04] Kari: If you are that person that's done all the game, I'm only going to drink on the weekends. I'm only going to have one and you end up having more because you're not able to control yourself after one. That's a sign. If you are not drinking during the week, but you're only drinking on the weekends, but then you find yourself having three to four glasses or, or standard drink.
[00:26:23] Kari: Let me talk about a standard drink here in a second too, but if you're having more than a couple of drinks in less than a two hour period, Then you are binge drinking according to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. If a woman has more than three drinks in less than a two hour period, you are binge drinking.
[00:26:41] Kari: If it's more than four for, it's more, it's four or more for guys. Also, let's talk about a standard drink here for a second. A standard drink is 5 ounces of wine, 12 ounces of beer, unless it's a craft beer or higher alcohol content, it's 8 to 9 ounces, and an ounce and a half of alcohol, beer. [00:27:00] If you, that's a standard drink.
[00:27:03] Kari: If a woman has more than seven standard drinks per week, they are considered to be in the risky stage of drinking, right? For men, it's double, it's 14 drinks. So that's another way you can look at it. I don't love hearing that. They call it moderate drinking is less than seven for women. But when we hear moderate, we often confuse that with being okay or even healthy.
[00:27:29] Kari: And let me just state this very clearly for all that are listening. There is no such thing as alcohol being healthy. If you've seen any reports or read any ports about, Oh, resveratrol and the wine is good for you. Yeah, that is true. Resveratrol is very good for you, but guess what? You can buy that in a pill form.
[00:27:49] Kari: You don't need the toxin alcohol to get that benefit. There are, there is no amount of alcohol that is considered healthy period and a story. You can listen to [00:28:00] Andrew Huberman talk about it, Gary Becca, or I think his name is Gary Becca. He's another one who is really out there right now advocating for alcohol to be off everyone's diet and in their daily consumption.
[00:28:15] Kari: It destroys our brain cells. It really havocs our hormones, our estrogen levels, especially for women, our sleep patterns, everything. I mean, it just plays havoc on us and it just keeps us. Plain, small, stuck feeling like crap and beating ourselves up over and over again. So back to the sign. Sorry, I had to go off that little tangent there for a second.
[00:28:36] Kari: Thank you. As far as signs go, it is one of those things that if you are having those internal dialogue questions inside of your head or those remarks that you're saying inside of your head, that my friend is a sign in itself. That is your gut, Holy Spirit. Inner voice, whatever you want to call it, [00:29:00] whispering to you, pay attention to it.
[00:29:04] Kari: If you've only heard it once or twice, that voice will get louder. You can betcha, betcha everything on that. It will get louder and I'm asking you to pay attention to it. And just like with me and Lori, you might have to wait two years before it cultivates into some sort of blossoming seed where you're about to make a change.
[00:29:23] Kari: But just know, it never gets better. It doesn't get easier, and the quicker that you decide to do something about it, the better. I also started this off by saying that it is a choice. Gray area drinking is a choice. We have different shades of gray. You can be lightly in the gray area, you can be in the medium shades of gray, you can be in the darker shades, and it's still all a choice.
[00:29:47] Kari: But the more you consume, the more time that passes, the deeper you get into it, the harder it is, and it no longer will become a choice at some point. And so. If [00:30:00] anything, know that it's still a choice, which is such a beautiful gig. It's such a gift to have that as an option. Yeah. I love
[00:30:10] Lori: that so much. There is that sliding scale.
[00:30:12] Lori: And so I love how you had said about the different colors of gray and it's such an opportunity to really stop and take a look at your drinking and ask yourself these questions before it gets into the darker zones. Because it does get harder and harder and
[00:30:26] Kari: harder. Oh, yes. And you know what? I have a good friend who I love dearly.
[00:30:31] Kari: And. We met because she also is sober. And, um, about two years ago, she joined my 30 day program. I used to have a 30 day program. I don't anymore, but when I did, and, uh, she did really well in it, she was like the shining star and just a year later she relapsed, it did not take her long to relapse and she almost lost her life.
[00:30:56] Kari: She almost lost her life. She went from, she's a small girl anyway. She [00:31:00] went from 130 pounds or 128 pounds down. Just under a hundred pounds in just a few weeks. That's how much weight she lost. She was very, very sick and almost died. It did not take long. So she was really not a gray area drinker. She has always had a severe problem with alcohol.
[00:31:22] Kari: There are some people out there that just. They really fall more into that severe abuse category. And if you're there, you know, you get to a place where it's just not a choice anymore. And you are that person that cannot, my, my message has always been to Laurie. And I think this is important to say, yes, I'm an advocate for not drinking.
[00:31:42] Kari: Of course I am. I don't drink. I see the benefits, but my message has always been about questioning the drink. Just question it. Question the drink. Question everything in your life. If there's something that's not sitting right with you, then just question it. The fact that you are having some questions already [00:32:00] is an amazing sign.
[00:32:02] Kari: You have awareness. Once we have awareness, now you get it. Now you have a choice. You can decide you have a desire to even want to make a change. If you don't have the desire, it's not going to happen. You have to have a desire to start with. You have to know why your why, what your why is. Your why has to be of deep value.
[00:32:21] Kari: You have to be committed to yourself. A hundred percent, no 98%. If you're not committed a hundred percent to make it a change, it's not going to work. You have to have an invest in yourself and have the identity shift that's needed. You have to be willing to do new daily habits and you have to be willing to do it every single day, putting in the effort.
[00:32:39] Kari: And that by the way, is my decide model. I just described to you, that's an acronym and oh yeah. Can you break it down? Yeah. D is having the desire to want to make the change. E is exploring your why. C is having a commitment to self. I is having identity shift. D is daily habits and E is [00:33:00] everyday effort equals expansion.
[00:33:03] Kari: I love an acronym. Yeah, me too. I like
[00:33:05] Lori: that a lot. It sounds like a lot, but really, let's break this down for somebody who is just starting out and they're saying, okay, I am at this point where I am in the action phase, right? I'm in the action, action phase. I want to take that 1st step. What could it be?
[00:33:24] Lori: Somebody waking up tomorrow and saying, this is my,
[00:33:26] Kari: my day 1. Yeah, my day 1, 1st of all, I just want to give you a big hug. That's your day 1. Journaling has been such a blessing for me, changing up your routine, but you want to start small. You want to start doing rewards that help you. You want to have some.
[00:33:45] Kari: A difference of your cues and your triggers and know that here's the big one. You want to be okay with not being okay. You got to know that there's, you're going to, you're going to have moments throughout your day where you're going to really want it. You're going to crave [00:34:00] the drink. You're going to want to have that glass of wine.
[00:34:03] Kari: You're going to feel left out. You're going to have resentment. And it's in those moments where I beg of you to sit through it and ask yourself, is this really true? Is this really what I want, or what am I thinking about in this moment that's making me think that I want it? Did something just happen? Was there a circumstance or a situation that stirred some sort of inner belief inside of me that has me thinking this way?
[00:34:29] Kari: Because guess what? Your thoughts is what's producing your feelings. And your feelings drive your actions, which is why you were choosing to drink. So when you're okay with not being okay and knowing that that feeling will pass, you'll be able to surf that urge. You'll be able to just to hold on. And it's not white knuckling.
[00:34:48] Kari: It's looking at your thinking. It's finding something else to do. It's getting up, changing your physiology and your body, changing your state. That way will really help you go for a walk, jump up and down, put some [00:35:00] music on, call a friend, walk through halt. Halt is asking yourself, are you hungry? Are you angry?
[00:35:05] Kari: Are you lonely? Are you tired? If you're one of those, take care of your needs. You know, there's so many tools, oh my gosh, there's so many that you can use, right? But it's like in those initial first days. And the other thing is don't do it alone. Get with someone, whether it's an accountability partner, whether you look into working with a coach, you sign up for a program, you go to AA.
[00:35:30] Kari: Maybe you try AA. Maybe it'll be great for you. Do something. Don't just sit there and do nothing. Do some research. Get a book. There's so many good books. Annie Grace's This Naked Mind. William Porter, Alcohol Explained. Very good book, by the way. There's Quit Drinking by Alan Carr. There's so many books out there, right?
[00:35:50] Kari: I really like this Naked Mind. I think Andy does a great job of breaking that down. Alcohol Explained by William Porter is another amazing, easy to read book. It's almost like simple to read and you can read [00:36:00] it in like, A day or two. Yeah. I love that book. So there's so many things that we can be doing that you could be doing.
[00:36:06] Kari: Get plugged in. The Instagram community is huge. Listening like to this podcast, consume more episodes on, on this podcast, learn more as much as you can. Just get yourself out there. Make this an obsession. Make this your new obsession on how you can get better and and what you can do to keep plugging in That would be my biggest advice for you.
[00:36:30] Kari: Yeah.
[00:36:30] Lori: Thank you for that I'm thinking of buddy who's in that gray area and they take a break and they're feeling really good and they go back to that Yeah, I don't think it was that bad. You know, we want to romanticize our drinking, right? What is your best tip, Keri, for somebody who's been there? Because I know that we've all been there.
[00:36:47] Lori: Yeah. At some point or we are going to that direction where we just feel like, oh yeah, I've given myself a break and now I'm feeling really good. And so we want to talk ourselves back into the drink. What is your best tip?
[00:36:59] Kari: Oh, [00:37:00] your brain's going to tell you it's okay. Of course it is okay. Whenever we do anything, the first three weeks or so, first 21 days, Well, it might feel hard the next 21 days.
[00:37:08] Kari: We're kind of going through this messy period of, of, Oh my God. Oh, like your brain saying, Oh, you've done three weeks. You're good. Now you can go back and try it. And, and then if you do, here's the thing, you will be pretty successful that very first time, but not maybe on the second or third time, you're going to be right back to where you were before you even went on this break.
[00:37:27] Kari: And I will tell you that you really want to ideally give yourself 90 days. To really clear out your system and your mind, and if that, I never encourage anybody to go try it again, only you're going to know, but if you had a hard time saying no to that second or third drink before you took that break, it's not going to be any different three, four months, a year later, you're going to still want it.
[00:37:50] Kari: Those neural pathways in our brain don't die. They just go dormant. So when you have that drink again, 90 percent of us out [00:38:00] there are going to have that neural pathway light back up and say, Oh my God, you remember this feeling is so great. Let's do it more and more and more and more. And you're back to where you were.
[00:38:09] Kari: And then now all the crashing feelings come back. You're such a loser and oh my gosh, look at you. You can't do anything right. All that negative talk will come flooding back. And I will tell you that I'm, if you're the all in or nothing kind of gal or guy, I'll tell you right now, that's going to be the same thing with your decision to eliminate alcohol of your life.
[00:38:31] Kari: Go all in. That would be my advice. Go all in. That's it. But I want to give people agency. It is a choice. You get to decide. Just know that you run a massive risk. If you have been that person that has struggled to say no to that second or third drink, and you've given yourself that time that you run a pretty big risk.
[00:38:52] Kari: If you say, Yes. To do it down the road. Fantastic. Thank you
[00:38:58] Lori: so much, Carrie. This [00:39:00] was so wonderful having you here. What is next for you in 2024 because we're at the beginning of the year, what is next
[00:39:07] Kari: for you? Yes. I'm so excited. I'm launching a brand new program. It will be 90 days. It is 90 days and that will be, it is 90 days.
[00:39:15] Kari: And it's all based on the Decide model called Decide 90. So we're going to be full swing with that here any day now, and I'm excited to get that going. So, yeah. Awesome.
[00:39:25] Lori: Thank you so much. Any final words for our listener out there who may be at this point where they're feeling like I've been telling myself for a really long time, I want to work to be a normal drinker.
[00:39:36] Lori: I want to work to be a normal drinker and they just have this feeling like it's never going to happen because I don't want to drink like a normal person if that's even a thing I don't think it is. What is that your final words
[00:39:47] Kari: for somebody? Pay attention to that little voice inside like we've been saying, listen to it.
[00:39:53] Kari: It's not going to steer you wrong. If you think it's a problem, it's a problem. Pay attention to it. It's there for a reason and [00:40:00] I'm hoping that my voice and Lori's voice today has cultivated something for you. If that's he's already been there. And that you will decide for yourself and you have full agency over choice.
[00:40:11] Kari: Thank you, Jesus, that we have that choice that you can make that decision for yourself right today. And we're here for you. If you decide we believe in you. Yes,
[00:40:23] Lori: that is for sure. Thank you, Carrie. Thank you so much for listening today. Go check out Carrie's information. It's all linked down below in the show notes.
[00:40:30] Lori: If you are somebody who is interested in enrolling in team alcohol free enrollment opens on March 20th of 2024 for new members. You can join the interest list also found in the show notes. I will be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, my friend, thank you for tuning in today. Take care of yourself.
[00:40:49] Peace.
Hey, there! I’m Lori, the host of the To 50 and Beyond podcast.
Where aging and living alcohol-free are celebrated.
To 50 and Beyond is about self-discovery, living for today, and designing an alcohol-free life that alcohol can’t compete with.
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