Noelle Van on Long-Term Recovery and Leaving Corporate
#338
In this episode, I sit down with my friend Noelle Vander for an honest conversation about change, aging, long-term sobriety, and what it really looks like to step out of a corporate career and into a new chapter in midlife.
Noelle is in long-term recovery, a leadership coach, author, and podcast host. She is grounded in her sobriety and in her work as you will hear during this episode.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
What it actually feels like to be in your fifties, including the wisdom, the physical changes, the slowing down, and the unexpected joy that can come with this season of life.
How long-term sobriety evolves, shifting from something you think about daily into part of who you are, and how it becomes a foundation for confidence, identity shifts, and internal growth.
The quiet relationship between workaholism and drinking in corporate culture, including how alcohol becomes normalized as both a coping tool and a reward in high-pressure environments.
What it looks like to leave a corporate career in midlife and redefine productivity, moving away from external validation and toward alignment, presence, and meaningful work.
Why creating white space matters, how burnout and identity shifts show up in midlife, and how small changes can open the door to a more honest and intentional next chapter.
Who This Episode Is For
This episode is for you if you’re feeling the pull toward change but aren’t sure where to start. If you’re questioning your relationship with alcohol, your career, or how you’re spending your energy in midlife, and if you’re ready to create more space, more alignment, and a different kind of next chapter.
Mentioned in this Episode
Episode #24: High Functioning Alcoholism and Hiding Your Drinking
Episode 230: How to Start a Journal Practice
Noelle's podcast: The Change Effect
Listen to the episode here
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Hey there. Welcome to two 50 and beyond. I am Lori. I am your host. This is where we talk about aging and living alcohol free later in life. I am so. I am grateful to be here with you today. That's the word that comes to mind as I sat down to have a wonderful conversation with my friend Noelle Vander. I met Noelle at She Recovers event, and it was in Beverly Hills, California.
And I liked her so much immediately, and I believe that we had connected before, but she's been on the podcast twice before, and today we are talking about change. Noelle is in long-term recovery and she's gonna talk about that. I'm gonna ask her about where she is with her aging experience and also pivoting out of a corporate career.
And I wanna know how drinking affected Noelle's career in corporate world because she used to work for. Apple and Sony and she was in it, and so I wanna talk about that with her as well. Noelle is a leadership coach. She is an author. She wrote the book, the Sober Leap, practical Wisdom to Create an Amazing Life Beyond Addiction, and she is the creator of a fantastic planner called The Day by Day book.
She is a podcast host. She has a podcast called The Change Effect, where she talks about change. She talks about making transitions. It's fantastic and I know you're going to appreciate Noelle because she is open and honest and I won't say fun. I like Noelle a lot and I like you a lot. It's gonna be a great conversation.
Hi Noelle. Hi Lori. Thanks for having me. Hey, we're back together again. I am so happy to be here with you today as we just had a 10 minute conversation and I've already shared in your introduction where we met and how long we have known each other. And I just remember walking into that little coffee area at the Beverly Hilton where we were staying at.
She for the She Recovers conference and that was the best conference. And I just remember walking in there and I think I was ordering coffee and you came around and you. Introduced yourself to me, but did we know each other before then? I can't remember.
I know. I wanna say I knew of you 'cause I knew of your podcast.
I think your podcast was already out by then and you and I were laughing 'cause we were the early birds. It was like 7:00 AM always. Nobody around. It's so funny 'cause when I think of the She Recovers conference, that always comes to mind of me. We just sort of ran into each other, but I felt like I knew you and maybe you probably thought I was a little weird 'cause I was like, Hey, and you're like, who are you?
Not
at all. Yeah, not at all. No,
I remember that. Just connecting there. And that was a great conference and I feel like so much unfolding happened after that. That was kind of, I was still in ear, not terribly early recovery, but I was still in early-ish recovery. Yeah, it was, you were a good friendly face and yeah, we've, okay.
And we've stayed in touch ever since.
Yeah, I like that. And I didn't think that you're weird, but I also love weird people and I consider myself a little weird, so, hey, welcome to the weird.
Exactly.
What is the first question for you, my friend? What is your age? That's the first question. Oh my goodness.
Alright, well this is a tricky one because I am 58, but I will be 59 next month. So there you go.
We're talking October. You're turning 59? Yes.
Are you 58, 59?
I'm 57. I'm thinking I'm 57.
I'll be 58 in November. See. Okay. And, and it's funny because I keep holding onto the one as long as I'm sort of still in the fifties.
I haven't hit the sixties yet. I have a lot of friends that have had 60th birthdays. And not to say that I don't wanna get there, but I do kind of like staying in the fifties for as long as I can. 'cause it's been a good decade. It's been a good, I really am enjoying my fifties like immensely.
So the next question I was going to ask you is what are you enjoying about getting older?
So what is it specifically in this decade? Can you think of something that's,
it's been a decade of a lot of personal growth for me, having left kind of the construct of. Corporate career moving into something new. So that's been a real test of confidence, will self understanding, forgiveness, all of that stuff.
So it's been a somewhat rocky road, and yet I have never been happier. I never used to be the kind of person that would be like, I feel so happy. I never like acknowledged it in that way. But there are really truly mornings I wake up and I'm like, you know. I'm, I'm feeling better now than I ever did in my thirties, ever in my forties.
So I don't know if there's like a way to pinpoint it, but it's just, there's, there's a wisdom I feel like I have. There's a groundedness now in my life that I never had before and it's really great 'cause I feel like it can only get better. Right.
I love that for you. That's good news. It's good. Some good stuff right there.
Yeah. Okay. The next question, do you have any challenges right now with getting older?
Oh, goodness. Well, we were just talking about that physically being in a body I no longer understand completely. That's probably my biggest challenge. I mean, it's, I have, I have little aches and pains that, that are coming, like to roost now from car accident.
When was I, when I was 16 and it's, I had neck issues from that and it's now starting to feel, I'm feeling arthritis. I'm feeling so I, the little aches and pains, but not anything like crazy. It's just a different, you know. I have to be kind of kinder to myself and like give myself breaks and do more and, and that's just new to me, I guess.
I mean, it's not totally new. It's been the case for the past five or six years, but you know, it's newer to me to be like, wow, you know, I can't necessarily go out on a hike and come back and feel great. I come back and I feel it for two days after that. It's those kinds of things. Giving yourself that sort of grace to.
Recover from things and to recognize that I'm not in the same body I was in when I was 30.
I'm curious because you have a lot going on in your life and you have your own business, which we're gonna talk about today. This is a curious question coming from me personally, mentally and handling your workload.
Have you noticed any kind of difference because you have come from the corporate world?
Yes, and and I think when I really started delving into like. My business wholeheartedly because it took me a little, I left Apple and I had been, I had been working on really complex investigations during COVID, so it was kind of a time where it was not only physically taxing, but mentally really taxing.
There was a lot of just un, there was a lot of very unhappy people around. In the corporate world during COVID especially, right? There was just, there was a lot of unrest and a lot of question marks, and people weren't feeling secure. I'm an empath. I will say it loud and proud, and I was in this. This world that was so draining.
So when I got out of corporate initially, I spent literally, it was like I said to people, I just wanna spend like three months and just look at a wall. Like I don't wanna talk to anybody. But then once I got into the rhythm of it, I realized I need that structure. I still am. Up early. I still have my rituals in the morning, dare I say, I meditate.
I do it when I can. I have quiet time, is what I call it. It's not so much like heavy duty meditation, but I just have quiet time in the morning and then I, you know, I get in the shower, I get ready, I, it's like I used to before I left my day job, but that gives me the structure and I manage time well now only because.
I replaced the person that I report into with myself, like I judge, like how much I get done each week. That's just how I've always been. If I don't put that structure in place, then I will end up on a Friday being like, wait, how? What happened this week? But I will say that the productivity piece to me has shifted a little bit, like productivity to me is connection.
Relationship building. It's not always the checking off of the boxes, which I think I did a lot of in my earlier career, like just getting stuff done. I realize now it's more about presence and more about how am I feeling about the relationships that I'm cultivating and why and how am I serving my clients because.
That's all the stuff you learn that you don't really know inherently when you go out on your own. I mean, I was a coach for years within the corporate world, so I had people coming to me all the time, but now it's like, oh wait, okay. So now I'm, I'm actually gonna be reaching out to an audience or a group or a client base that is of my choosing, right?
And how do I do that and how do I cultivate those relationships in the right way so that I feel like I'm doing good work? Right? It's a different. Test, I guess.
Like that, that's your priority when you're working with people. I do a weekly list, but when I look at most of it, it can get done, but that's not my priority and I love hearing that from you, and I was very curious about that.
Thank you for sharing. Definitely. Let's talk about sobriety. And I'm gonna have your episodes link down below that you've been on before where you talked about it, because I know we did an episode about high functioning. Yeah. And that was your first episode. And then we did another one about journaling.
Uh, what is your sobriety date?
Oh, my sobriety date is November 27th. No, I'm sorry, November 24th. 'cause it's the day after Thanksgiving 2011. So 14 will be 14 years coming up.
14 years. Congratulations. Thank you. Almost 14 years, right?
Yeah, almost. I feel like I'm in my 14th year, so I always tell people 14, but I guess I gotta make that date.
I'm 13 going on 14.
You had to stop and think about it, and that's what I wanna ask you about because you have long term, right? I consider that long term. How do you keep it going? What would you say that's been helpful for you?
It's so funny because I know that in the early years it was so much more present on my mind.
You know, I can remember the first one or two years of being sober and I still, this is so crazy 'cause I just thought of this. I still have dreams that I've gone, that I go back to drinking. Like very rare. But like, I will have one of those dreams where I'm like, whoa, wait, what? What was I, I'm sitting in a bar like, what's, what's that all about?
So I don't know what that is, but that it's never a conscious part of my day anymore. I'm grateful for it. I know it's a part of who I am. I know that it's something that I would never mess with, if that makes any sense. I would never test myself in that area, you know what I mean? But it's, I'm around people that are having drinks.
It's like, I can't even explain it. It's almost like I'm just not in that game anymore.
Which
feels really liberating, but I never consciously was like, wow, I'm just not thinking about it anymore. It's faded. It started to fade more and more as the years went by, and the thing that I started to recognize more was not so much my sobriety, but just kind of my internal growth, because I feel like when I got sober, that's the day I gave myself permission to start going in that direction.
So every year I just kind of builds and builds and builds, and that sobriety date to me is like kind of just the beginning of stepping into sort of a different identity almost. Sounds a little dramatic.
It's true of not focusing so much on the day that you quit or stop drinking, but that you started to make this change in your life and you started to free yourself from alcohol.
It's a tough decision for most, and you know, we get to that point, we make that decision, and that is really the hardest part. And then after that, then it becomes a different kind of challenge, and then also all of the benefits and the wins that we experience along the way. But that can happen in a moment.
I quit drinking.
Yes,
I'm done. And now I start this new chapter in my life and this new road to healing,
I think is such a important thing to point out. I think in my hardest days now, you know, if I have a day that's a tough one, or there's a challenge or something that scares me, that I wanna wanna do or need to do in my business or whatever, you know, the things that come up right?
I use my sobriety. As my data point, right? It's kinda like, well, I mean I did that, like could it be any worse than that? Because that was really hard. I mean, it was in the moment and in the time and when it happened, that was a new way of living, but it was also physiologically hard and all of the things that go along with it.
So, but I look back on that and that can, that's like sort of my touchstone. I go to and, and we're all really lucky to have that, right? To be able to, to look back on something like that and go, well, look at that. I mean, that's a proof right there that I could pretty much do anything, right. That I wanna do.
I'm with you on that. It could be that thing that empowers us to make other changes in our lives and to remind ourselves that we could do hard shit, right? Yes. I just wanna touch on this before we move on. When you said, I won't test myself or I won't, what did you say?
When I say testing, like I don't even know what I meant by that.
I don't put too much thought to it because it's not part of who I am. You know, when people say like, oh, the dragon's at the door and all that, and, and I get that. I mean, I understand addiction. Believe me, we've all, we've all experienced it in our own way and time, but. I never would get to a place where I'm feeling so desperate that that would be something that would come to mind.
So it's like when I know I'm tired or what is it? What are the things? It's like too tired, too hungry, too. There's like four different things. Hungry, hungry.
Angry,
lonely. Tired. Tired. Yes. Like all of the, whenever I have those moments, that's the last thing I think of. It's like I think of movement now. I think of breath work now.
I think of all the things that I learned when I was new in sobriety to calm my central nervous system. I do that now just because I don't know if it's necessarily, test was the right word, but like I don't, I don't mess. I don't mess with it. I don't even go into that area. I think you said mess. I think
you said mess and I said test.
That's what it was. But I just wanted to to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, because you know a lot of women will, the thoughts will come up. Maybe I can have just one. Maybe I can go back. I deserve it. Look at all this hard work I've done. Did you ever have those thoughts?
I don't recall ever having those thoughts, to be honest with you.
I know myself so well, and I know that when I justify something. I will go for it. That was what the drinking was all about for me, right? It was like I kind of wanted to just test those boundaries. Kind of a risk taker that way, like I know myself enough that if I even allow myself to have those thoughts, that I'll start to go down a path that I won't be able to turn around from, and I could be wrong.
You know? I say that to myself all the time. You could be well out of the woods in this thing, but why mess with it? Leave well enough alone,
you know? I totally get it. Thank you. I wanna talk about your work in corporate. When did you get into the corporate world? What age were you?
Oh gosh. I was in the corporate world in college, so I was in hr.
At Blue Cross in Chicago before I moved out to California. And it's so funny because I got into labor relations because my dad started the legal department in like the fifties or something like that at Blue Cross. I was one of the kids that came for the summer job, right? Because dad was an executive there.
He got me the summer job and I showed up. They told me to come a day early, so I was on the wrong day and they were like, Van's, kids here. Where do we put her? And they put me relations. And it's so funny because I so took to hr. I loved it. I did that all through college. And then when I moved out to California, I just went right into HR and just started.
I was probably coaching really early on in my career too, which was kind of funny. I feel like I did that a lot. I did a lot of that informally in my roles. And then as I got into business partnership and all that, I did a lot more change management and leadership coaching. So by the time I was at. Sony and Apple.
I was pretty much working pretty exclusively with a lot of leaders, but also with teams and things like that, but just loved the coaching element of it. I've been in the corporate world. I got 30 years, maybe do I say that? Dare I say, I came out to California 90, so I was just getting started then. So that's 30, you know?
Well, we know my age, so that's okay that I say that.
We did talk about this in the beginning because you mentioned workaholism and you mentioned drinking and the identity around somebody who is in the corporate world. Can you talk about how. That played a role for you with the drinking and
workaholism?
That's when my addiction really took hold. When I was in probably my late, mid to late thirties, climbing the corporate ladder was working in San Francisco was crazy busy. I mean, dot com. That whole phase was crazy. You wouldn't leave work until nine o'clock at night type of thing. Everybody was doing it, so I wasn't the only one, but there was a ton of drinking in the workplace, so it was the natural thing.
So it became this coping mechanism, but it was also sort of part of the social scene. It was just so incorporated into what I was doing and, and, and all of that. And then the workaholism sort of took hold there too. I mean, I know that I had that going on for a good 10 years, and it wasn't until I stopped drinking.
And realized I had to kind of ease up on the level of stress that I was putting on myself, that I was able to kind of pop out of it. But I think they go hand in hand. And I work with women now that are in the workplace. You know, there's so many parallels that I see between addiction, substance addiction, and workaholism.
There's an identity there. There's a. Need to control. There's a lot of stuff that is intertwined. So I use a lot of the principles, frankly, that I learned when I was getting sober with clients. Right, of like, how do you extract yourself from this identity that you've created and how do you find ways of feeling worthwhile and useful and purposeful and productive?
That aren't yourself and staying at work until nine o'clock at night, or not turning off the phone all weekend, you little stuff like that that. We get sucked into and that just becomes who we are. And then you're like, wait a minute. Then once you start to try to extract that and help people to understand that there's a better way, they don't know where to start, which is the part that I love really probably the, the most in my work, is helping women unravel that and really have an understanding of who they are, you know, after 20 years of being a certain person, and now it's like, oh, okay, well let's look a little deeper and see what's in there.
I've worked with many women who are in the corporate world. It is such a culture in that type of environment with parties and going out to drinks after work. And I know so many women who are listening to us today are in that place. Yes. And I'm wondering when women come to you, what, what age of a gallery you working with?
I have, I have two that are in their thirties, but most are in their fifties. To be honest. I can so relate if they're just getting out of corporate at this point, right. I'm probably five years ahead of them, so I always feel like I'm the, I'm the one with the flashlight and the kinda like, yeah, okay guys, come this way because I have been there.
But also I know so much about the corporate culture. I've been so immersed in it for so much of my life that. Anything that they bring to me, it's kind of like, it feels like I can speak their language in, in a way that, um. It's almost a shorthand because they are experiencing similar things to what I've experienced.
And I feel like the corporate world is kind of an unforgiving place. I don't want to ever bash corporate 'cause it was part of my life for so many years, but there is a construct within corporate that dampens down who you are and there's part of that game that you play so that once you. Come out of it, or people that are moving out to do consulting work or people that are deciding that they wanna just leave it together.
There's a whole kind of, you have to sort of reinvent who you are because you haven't really paid much attention to it for a long time. And that to me is really exciting. 'cause that's when women start to really come into their own and go, oh my gosh. And when you, when you think about all of the experience that they have.
Yeah, had in corporate, it's a foundation to create something really exciting for the next chapter. And that's the other thing that I, I would just say is looking back on the corporate experience, women are always amazed. Like I feel like there's a humility there. When you've been in corporate for so long, you don't recognize all of the things that you've actually done.
And we'll literally pull it apart and say, let's talk about this. Like what was the arc of your career? What has been the story? And they're kind of amazed to see all that they've. That they've produced, that they've done, all of the people they've touched, the relationships they've had. It's a whole new world and you don't really stop and think about that when you're in the go, go, go mode.
Of course, they're not giving themselves enough credit, but having somebody to pull it out, because you would just think, well, I did this job, but there's so many different pieces to it that you can pull out and like, oh wow, okay. I have several different things that I can do for myself. When women are coming to you, are they looking to transition out of corporate into their own business or into something else?
I have a mix because I worked at Apple. I have clients that come from Apple that are retiring earlier, right? I mean, they just have been within roles where they, that allows 'em to do that. But what's really interesting, I have equal amounts of people coming from corporate to start their own business or some that are retiring.
So having been a part of Apple for many years, I have people that I worked at with Apple. I have referrals from Apple, and they are. Women that can afford to retire early. So there, that's a whole nother segment there of like, how do I reinvent myself in a way that is not about creating a new business necessarily, but what do I wanna do with my time and how do I wanna spend it?
And it could be about family, it could be about travel, it could be about learning new skills, all of that. Women that are starting their own business similar, they do a lot of. Personal branding work with women where it's like, okay, let's take what you've done, which is a huge amount of work, right? You have built a solid, solid foundation in the years that you've worked with in corporate.
Now, let's extract that and see how you can. Build a message and have a presence about you that shows people who you are and what you stand for and whether they go into speaking or whether they go into starting their own consulting businesses. There's so much out there for women to tap into, and there is a.
Mindset shift that has to happen where you're a very powerful person within a particular construct. How do you take that out into the greater marketplace and really highlight and focus on those areas that you really made incredible impact? I work with women that are leaders like. Big time leaders within corporations, but everybody I've come to realize, all of us have those old beliefs that we carry with us throughout our lives.
It doesn't matter what title you have, there's work to be done to overcome some of that, to then get to that next level. So that's the exciting part of, of my work. I feel like, 'cause women are amazing anyways. They're just fun to work with. We, we are fun to work with.
Yeah. Yeah, what are those beliefs and those challenges?
What I wanna know is women who are in their fifties or beyond, right, even in their forties, are they coming out of corporate and having a difficult time going into another role, another position.
I think if we have in our mind that we're at a certain age and we can't go into something new, that's gonna become a reality.
So if you're coming out of corporate and you're looking to do something on your own, that's where you can really play with what is it that you've done in your current role? What are the mindset shifts that you need to make? Because a lot of people feel, and this is, I'm making a general statement, but I'm gonna just say this, A lot of women have that sense of worth.
The titles and the accolades that they've received within in corporate. And they're worried, very worried that when they go outside and start becoming their own person, their own business, they're the face of their business. That can become really scary because you don't have that same reward system. And so how do you develop that internally?
How do you really come to terms with what you've done and what you've created and be proud of that and get past those beliefs that I need to have someone higher up telling me that I've done a good job and move outta that and create something completely new. And I think once women get, have the understanding that yes.
They can present themselves in different ways out there, and it's really theirs to create. That's when they start to fly. But it's getting past some of those things. When you're within that construct for so long, it's tough to just shake that. I mean, it took me. Several years to get out of just that mentality of, oh, okay, so I'm not this person anymore.
I'm creating this. I'm gonna create something that's gonna be powerful for me and other people. , we've been working in a man's world for a long time, and women have to be able to step out of that to then really start to come into their own.
But once they do, I mean, it's magical. To see what women can create
really is, and especially today, it's changed so much. Yeah. I talk to women about that now. Inside my coaching, it's that craving. I want something else for myself and honestly it could be women who have never really worked and they're coming out of, you know, raising their kids and having.
Absolutely all of the wisdom and the lessons and all they have to offer the world and to go into something. I see midlife women who are starting podcasts, who are starting coaching businesses and, and these things because. There's so many opportunities right now, and I feel like there are so many opportunities.
Anybody who wants to start something for themselves, a lot of it has to do with the mindset work. A lot of it has to do with how we take care of ourselves first, and that took me a while to get to that point. Like I have to put myself first, take care of myself, and then I can help other people,
right?
Because if you don't not be of any help to anyone that I have to realize. I always say this to women who are getting a little bit in their own way because we've all been there, right? If you can concentrate on being of service, which we as women are great at, right? That's how we're built. We are, we are meant to be of service.
That's part of our DNA. That's part of who we are. So if you can concentrate on that, it helps you to get out of your own way because you start to realize, you know what? This isn't about me and my identity, which. Is really sometimes difficult to tease out. Right? Get outta your own way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Be there.
Show up, serve. And the more that you do that, the more things start to happen in your business. And I think we're so used to the checking off of boxes, and I'm speaking of myself mostly, but like so used to checking off the boxes and getting things done, and am I doing this the right way? Right. Is this perfect?
Mm-hmm. Is this, you know, all that stuff goes out the window once you. Realize that if you're being of service, that stuff's gonna kind of take care of itself. It just is, and that's just one way of looking at it. But I think there's, there's a lot of mindset work that needs to be done, and it's great work to do because we're at a place that the more that we can get beyond that, the more we can help other people.
And that's kind of what it's about.
When somebody is coming to you, are they coming to, with burnout ever and just like, I'm, I'm tired of it. Yes. What are the signs?
Oh gosh. I think because I've worked with women that are kind of later in their careers to me. Yeah. I mean, I still work with women on just time management stuff.
I mean, sometimes we go down back to those basics, right, of like, how do you stop stretching yourself so thin? You've been in a career for 20 plus years. It's time, and that's kind of what we talk about. You know, it's like it is time to give yourself the grace and the moments and the time to pause. We still get caught up in that rat race, right?
I mean, when you're doing, doing, doing, and that's all you ever have done in your career. That's just how you live your life. But when you can kind of put that pause button in place for five seconds and just say, okay, I'm gonna give myself a break and take a walk. I mean, it, it sounds silly, but some of these things are very basic to just get back to because you know.
We tend to be on a treadmill a lot in the corporate world, especially of just getting stuff done, getting stuff be relied upon. Be the one that's the right hand person and I'm always gonna be the one that they can rely on. And that obviously takes its toll. But I think especially women in leadership roles, because that's just, that's kind of how they operate.
It's a real challenge for our listeners here, which we love so much because I know the people pleasing and putting others first, and especially our job, our families, everything. And then you get to that point, the kids have left, you're leaving your career, you're retiring. There is no shame in any of it because.
We're not used to it, you know? Right. Women aren't used to taking care of themselves and it takes time. Yes. And it's not silly. It's not anything that's uncommon. For sure. I see it all the time. Absolutely. I have conversations about it all the time. Yeah. It's just those baby steps that we have to take to get back to it and to learn how to do
it.
Yes. It's like anything else, the more that you learn how to do it. Like when I talk about like my morning routine, I never, in a million years, if this was 10 years ago, I would've been like, you know, I still, I journal, that's always been my mainstay. But like getting up in the morning and actually taking those moments to myself, I'd be like, what?
I mean, I would never believe that. Now that I do it, I look forward to it. It's like my little treat. So it kind of shifts its meaning, right? It's not about. A waste of time. It's actually, I'm gonna be a better person today if I just do this. So if I can be a better person to other people because I'm helping myself in the morning, then let's do that.
You know?
Yeah. So we have to look for sure. For sure, and then at that mindset is getting out of the mindset of the story of, well, I feel selfish in doing this because there's other things to do. Right? That's where it's like baby steps. I feel for anybody who is in any kind of job where they feel like they are burnt out, they don't enjoy it anymore, they're going through menopause.
And then they push, push, push, push, and using alcohol as a way to cope. No wonder, right? And so I want you to just share just the first steps for somebody who is out there. Either they're in corporate or maybe they're in another job that they've been in, or their own business, you know, what is that first step to take in making a transition to doing something else?
I say go back to your priorities. Go back to what do you prioritize in your life? And this is not just work, right? Family, travel, you know, anything that you crafts that you like to do, work that you like to do outside of work, reading, like all of the things. As well as priorities within work. But look at the whole thing.
The more that you can take a look at what's actually going on, the better you can start to say, okay, how can I make some of these little tweaks here and there that are gonna make things easier for me? 'cause at the end of the day, if you're not making time for yourself, first of all, you're not good for anyone else, which we know that we've said that, but you're gonna burn yourself out even further, not even knowing where to turn.
The overwhelm becomes overwhelm on top of overwhelm because you just, it's like, I don't even know where to start. So that's why I say to people, just like, make a list. Make a list of the things that you enjoy doing. Make a list of your priorities during the day. How can you block out space and time for yourself within the madness that is created around you?
Because ultimately. You know, people say my calendar is jam packed and I've got so many things, and I work with a lot of women that are, they are counted on. I mean, there is, there is a lot that they need to do within the working world, and there are also meetings that they attend that maybe they don't need to be at.
There's, I mean, it, it goes sometimes a little bit deeper into that. How are you managing your team? How, you know, we go into some of those things because it rings the bell of like, oh wow, okay. Yeah, you're right. I, I could probably have people that report to me. Be attending this meeting and I can just like you put yourself in a little bit of a different position.
You're not feeling like you have to be at all places at all times. And it can be humbling for some people, and some people resist it because they kind of want. That's part of an identity thing, right? Of like, well, but I mean I'm needed here, unnecessary here. Well, is that true? And we kind of just, it's like, it's like playing around with it a little bit and people will put their priorities in in a list and they'll start to tick things off and things will start kind of falling off to the wayside.
And you go, okay, good. So this is gonna allow some space. And you have a contingency plan for those things. 'cause we all like those. We don't wanna be like. You know, shirking our responsibilities in any way. But it's like getting people to feel a little more flexible in what's going on in their lives. And the more you flex to that and make that a little bit easier, then the better it gets and the easier it gets.
But it's like you said, total baby steps. 'cause people are not gonna go, I'm just gonna throw a bunch of stuff off my calendar. They're not gonna do that.
I say, cut the fluff. Cut the fluff, Laurie. Like, gimme a break. Right? And like what we talked about earlier, our priorities. My priorities are my clients, my community, you know, showing up here on the podcast and the rest of it, if it gets done, it gets done.
But also when you get used to that and you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm not constantly working, I'm not constantly thinking about the list and all of it, you become. Enamored with it. Yes. Honestly, we become like, it's like, Ooh, this feels good. I want more of that. I feel like that comes with aging too. For me, particular, it's just it has to, yes, it has to.
I need more white space in my life, and so to recognize that for the woman who is out there and they're in this place where they're just waiting to make this transition. Give them some hope and encouragement on getting started now, because I feel like when they do that, whenever we start something, either it's a goal, right?
Or like a date. What would that be? Because then you get excited about it, right? Yes. And you have something down so you're not just thinking about it and going through the motions.
And one thing I will say, and this is gonna sound maybe a little counterintuitive, but. I only say this, I speak from experience.
I used to be very, very married to the idea that I was very busy. Right. That was kind of who I was. That's what my role was at work. I was an HR business partner partner for many years, so I was always like on call basically, and there was a little bit of charge that I got out of that I will admit. So there is that element of like taking a closer look at what am I getting out of this?
And is it, and it doesn't mean that you know that that's, that you're a bad person or anything like that. It's just like that becomes kind of your identity and you're the one that everybody kind of looks to for the answers. And so this is, but it, the minute that you give yourself the grace to pull out of that and put yourself first, and I love what you just said about, you know, I'm, the podcast comes first, my clients come first.
Like, your priorities are the people in your life that you're serving and what brings you joy. And then the rest is secondary. And in work we can do that too. It's not to say that we can let go of responsibilities if we're in a corporate environment and people are expecting us to be somewhere at nine o'clock, but I'm saying in those places where yes, you might just be overextending and the minute you start to bring it up, like you said, the the fluff, like once you free that up, it becomes really liberating.
Yeah. The other option is just forcing. A bunch of stuff into the time that we have. It's about being realistic and then also honoring yourself, I think. And those are boundaries. Like, oh my goodness, I cannot keep burning myself out. I cannot keep going like this. I cannot keep drinking because I'm trying to keep everything up in the air.
Something has to change and making that change. And this is part of your podcast, the Change Effect. I love that name. Yeah. I remember when you started your podcast and you changed the name, you changed the name of the The podcast. Yeah. The change effect. Talk about that and what you share there.
The change effect, so it used to be called Journeys Through Change, which you were part of.
I think you were one of my first guests on that podcast. It's stories from women to inspire other women to step into change, to create a life they, a life they love. And it's been, journeys through change has been so transformational for me personally. And I hope for the listeners. Because the women on that podcast have shared their stories with such humility and such openness, and we get on the podcast to talk about one thing, and there's like five other dimensions to these women.
You know, it's, as we know, we are very multidimensional. People, and so it's The Journeys Through Change podcast morphed into the change effect because I started to realize that we were sharing stories of women's journeys, but I wanted to incorporate more strategies, more coaching practice strategies. For people to have a better understanding of how to just step into any kind of change, like what are the practical steps that I can take?
I started to realize as I'm talking to more and more women that the change that you make, whether it's big or small in your life, has these ripple effects. It ripples into every area of your life. So when you think about sobriety, think of how many people in your life that that has affected that one decision that you made.
And how that continues to have a ripple effect, right? Throughout the years and throughout your relationships and the things that you're building and what you're creating in your life. Changing that title alone, it felt like it was giving it a little bit of a greater importance in terms of when you do make those decisions and how, how giving yourself the ability to shift.
Even in the smallest of ways is really a gift. Like to be able to step into something new every day, whether it's something like a daily routine, change it up a little bit. It doesn't have to be these huge, you know, life changing decisions, but transformation comes from a lot of these little bitty things that we do in our lives.
It really struck me as something I wanna explore more and to help to really provide more practical. Advice, advice and help. Advice for women that are listening. It's really fun and we're building a great circle of women that are, you know, sending messages about what they're doing with their lives. It's just like, it's such a, it's just goodness.
It's a lot of goodness.
I love that word. Yeah, it is. Goodness. I'm touched by you and your work that you're doing, and when I saw. Your new program that you're offering and your coaching and where you're going. I'm proud of you and I am inspired by you for sure. Thank
you. Yeah, so much. I'm inspired by you, Laurie, the community that you're building.
It's amazing. I feel like we've watched each other grow.
This is so much fun. Well, thank you so much for being here, here by coming on your podcast.
Yes. I
can't remember, did we set a date? You are. We have not set a date yet. Why don't I send you a few? Yeah, send me a few. What are we gonna talk about there?
Because this will probably be coming out later towards the end of the year 2025.
Yes.
When we're talking about change and you're interviewing me, what topic do you wanna talk about?
Are we still on or are we recording?
I might leave it. I was gonna say, well, I do wanna talk to you about sobriety. I wanna talk to you about the women that you have brought together. What else do you wanna talk about?
About, I was just curious because I was just thinking about. As we were talking about before we started recording, definitely I wanna go back into more menopause stuff.
Yeah. That I'm dealing with and like how that is. I think a lot of women are struggling right now and sometimes I'm struggling and so, you know, I wanna talk about that, the change of life
that. Is right. Obviously right along with what we, I think we talked a little bit about it when I had you on at the very beginning.
Yep. But
I think that's excellent. We have not touched on that in a while. I think that would be really helpful. That is okay. The change.
The change. I appreciate you so much and I will see you very soon. Uh, any final words to our listeners out there? Words of encouragement for anybody who is feeling like, I have listened to this episode and now I am ready to make a change in anything but maybe the career.
Look within and recognize that if you have something calling to you, if there is a little nudge, a little whisper to listen to it. And just go with it. You don't have to do anything tomorrow. But once that seed is planted, it's important to, to pay attention to it.
Take care of it, cultivate it.
Yes. And there's so much out there.
There's so much out there to be explored. I can't say it enough.
That needs to be another episode about starting an online business for women in the middle of life. 'cause a lot of women, and I know one who's very close to me, is struggling with finding work in her early sixties and. I have been encouraging her to start something new online for herself.
It's needed. If anybody has
questions about that, believe me, I am happy to have the conversation. 'cause it's a, yeah, send
her an email.
Yeah.
I'll have your contact down below. You're very kind in responding to people and, and helping people without, you know, of course, sign up
for this.
Yeah, no, exactly., I'm probably really bad at that to be honest. I'd rather just have a one one conversation. Me too. I do. Well, thank you. Thank you, Lori. Thank you for having me.
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Hey, there! I’m Lori, the host of the To 50 and Beyond podcast.
Where aging and living alcohol-free is an advantage, not a limitation.
To 50 and Beyond is about self-discovery, aging well on your terms, and designing an alcohol-free life that alcohol doesn’t stand a chance against.
I’m with you.✌🏻
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